What are normal dents?

[wigs_1]

Currently doing the full service and I've noticed a few things. As the 5th owner of this bike I'm not expecting it to have been "cherished" however there are a couple of points which don't quite look right but at the same time don't look completely wrong either so I'd appreciate if some of you could head out to your bikes and have a look see if you have anything similar to me. All comments appreciated. Its a 1997 bike by the way.

1) Bike pulls to the right (only a bit when hands are off the bars), prob highlighted by tyre wear. In my experience its usually slightly more on the RHS not the left due to camber in road.



I'm hoping its going to be a twist in the yokes (yet to be checked) BUT I then noticed a few things on the frame.

Dent in RHS of headstock in the corner where the frame, headstock and bracing piece meet.



In the front of the frame approx 6" below the headstock. This one almost looks like its supposed to be there HOWEVER I can't remove the front cylinder exhaust valve cover without loosening the whole rocker cover which seems to defeat the point of having a handy little cover.



LHS of the headstock, same place as on RHS.



Finally, what used to be here? Its on the RHS of the frame next to the intake to the front cylinder. One of the previous owners saw fit to remove it using a grinder ?? I wonder what they knew that Mr Honda didn't? The one on the LHS of the frame is missing too.



Thanks in advance for your comments.

[BlindPugh]

I have had 4 ATs and the only one that had a dent in the front downtube was a write off due to a frontal accident which distorted the frame ( and wrecked a good few other bits too ). The lugs that possibly might be missing could be for attaching the bottom of the airbox housing to the frame - they may have been removed if the rails are out of position relative to the carb/engine position - so it may be possible to fit the airbox to carbs but not bolt it to the frame at the same time?



Here is a pic of the bare frame and you can see the airbox lugs sticking up from the frame rails.





The side strengthening plate on the headstock does have a bit of a bend as there are a lot of compound angles going on around the headstock so I suspect the triple clamp critical pieces headstock etc..are all clamped in place and the gusset (ooh er missus) plate is welded in place to fill in the corner.

Maybe worth getting the frame geometry checked - not likely to fall apart but it could cause some strange handling/tyre wear issues - On all the ATs I have had I am able to take my hands off the bars at 60mph and they slow down with a very slight shimmy at about 45 mph - always tracks in a straight line though. Different matter with the panniers on and loaded as it gets a real head shake doing this.

The written off frame had the following damage - bent lockstop, bent front fairing support mount points, bent airbox mounts, distortion to the rear engine mount point on frame although the lower ones at the front were OK - probably due to them being double M8 mounting bolts. The engine was actually slightly out of position in the frame when compared to a straight one.


HTH.

[chronyx]

D'oh

[Richardg]

Wigs

I am a fully trained bike mechanic and I think you have made your own correct diagnosis of the problem, It looks like your bike has had some severe front end damage. All @ frames are made in a frame jig at the factory, they should have no dents at all and all the welds should be in tact, over the years we all have the odd fall which might mark the farame a bit, but if it is damaged enough to 'dent' or split major parts of the frame (the headstock area is a critical area), then I would say you need to replace the frame. If the frame failed at the headstock area when you were riding the bike at 100mph you could be killed, so don't ride the bike anymore until it is repaired. There are some firms that say they can sort a bent/damaged frame, but I would say forget it, there are plenty of @'s being broken by dealers, make a few calls and I am sure a replacement frame can be found. don't forget to change the details on the registration docs for the bike (new frame number etc.

not sure where you are, however if I can help then let me know ,chainging a frame is not that bad a job and should be complete after a couple of days work, I have a bike workshop so if I can help I will

[Gaz]

Richardg
Are these things that would be spotted during a standard MOT?

Thanks
Gaz

[BlindPugh]

Probably not as the bent downtube is tucked up behind the fork legs etc.. and distorted headstock area is hidden behind the fairing. So it is not easy to spot and could be missed.

[Richardg]

I agree

although a bent frame would in my book result in a failed MOT, as mentioned above it is very easy to miss it, dark workshop, very little time to do the test, etc all combine to help get it through the test un spotted.

Also, with some of the very modern bike frames they often look bent when they are suposed to look like that , we have the benefit of knowing our @s in minute detail so would spot something a miss in a flash.

[wigs_1]

Managed to get some Dye Pen NDT gear off my colleagues at work so I NDT'd around the headstock.

For those who don't know how dye pen NDT works it goes something like this.... (mind you I'm no expert, these are the instructions given to me by my work pals)

You clean the area with a solvent
Use a rag to apply a dye to the affected areas
Leave for 20 mins to allow dye to soak into cracks
Clean dye away with solvent
Spray area with developer (white stuff)

What then happens is that any dye in the cracks soaks through the developer and makes itself known.

So, below is the best picture of what I managed.


You can see some red coming through however its in the toes of the welds where it is difficult / impossible to remove the dye. You have to use the solvent on a cloth to clean away the dye because if you spray it directly onto the frame you could wash the dye out of the cracks. Most welds where you use dye pen are ground flush however on the bike the welds stand proud leaving a crevice at the toe for the dye to collect, thus difficult to clean, also I wasn't prepared to grind / polish the frame. Does this make sense ?

Anyway, the frame isn't cracked although something is definately 'out'. Would those in the know still consider it an MOT failure? Personally I wouldn't as the bike rides ok and only really pulls right when hands aren't on the bars (ie: I'm not fighting it), although I could be considered biased .

Changing the subject slightly, does anyone have a spare RD07 frame. Condition not too important but needs to be straight. Cheers

[Steve C]

An accident check on the bike is pretty cheap too and, although it doesn't cover all damage possibilities/eventualities, it'll give some info and/or peace of mind to support what you're seeing.

[wigs_1]

I've been offered a frame (off a 99 bike)
Assuming its straight, does £176 + £30 delivery sound like a fair price?
Cheers