A Couple Of Problems

[Annette]

Evening All

As you know I bought my Africa Twin a couple of months ago and I absolutely love it. However, I am still only learning about the mechanical side of things. I understand how everything works but I have a couple of niggling problems and wonder if anyone else can help.

1. Battery Problem? My bike has always started first time, no problem what so ever. I went to work this morning. When I tried to start the bike this afternoon the battery was completely flat.....absolutely no power in it at all. Now I know batteries do go, and not having had the bike long I don't know when the battery was last changed, but I always thought they died over a period of time..ie slow starting and such. But this just completely died. Fine this morning, dead this afternoon. I don't have any gadgets on my bike to draw power. So has the battery just given up the ghost or could it be something more serious? I have ordered a new battery just to be on the safe side, but will put the optimate on it tomorrow when I get to work to charge it so I can get it home again (obviously this happened at the most inconvenient time and I got stuck at work).

2. The speedo just stopped working. Having looked at the cabling it was in a funny position at the wheel end and had a kink in it. The kink has now been routed correctly. It showed a bit of life but then didn't work again. Does this mean that the cable could be broken inside and I need a new one?

3. The side stand switch light does not work.

4. This is probably the most serious fault and I have no idea what could be causing it. On starting the bike the neutral light stays on and stays on for about 10-15 minutes whatever gear I'm in, although the bike rides fine. I can only select neutral gear at about 2500rpm. It is impossible to get the bike into neutral on idle even when fully warmed up. Also when trying to push the bike in neutral it is very hard. Feels like it is still in gear (and I'm not just being a girl as I can push Stormforce8's bike much more easily). The clutch cable is adjusted correctly and I can't see any damage to it. It has the correct type of oil and is filled correctly, and I am at a loss as to what could be causing this.

So, if anyone has any ideas I would be extremely grateful for any help you can give. Stormforce8 is always available to help if I need it, but I do want to try and fix things.....never know when I might be up a mountain on my own and need to do some maintenance.

Cheers guys 'n' gals.

Annette

[meljordan]

hi problem1 ithink your cable is goosed (2) you may have an electrical short possibly in the housing around the horn indicator station this also has some wiring from the side stand loom I think the small spade connector loosen it and electralube it into submission also check the rest of the loom if it is a short that may also be responable for your battery dying.as for feeling like its in gear there are some really zen guru techies on the sight and i am sure they will be more use to you than me but as a fellow new forester i hope you dont give up on your bike or enjoying riding it but if it has to go into repair you can use my old girl if it means you keep riding. (ime having a fling with a crf)

[BobA]

Annette

Some food for thought on your problems.

Battery
Did you leave your curlers plugged into the bike? Just kidding!!!

Funny things happen to perfectly good bikes as the the cold weather arrives, especially if they live outside.
As you try to start it, do the headlights dim? Does the solenoid or starter motor just click? These are a sure sign it IS the battery, however if the headlights remain bright, and it doesn't have the gut to turn over, you're looking at the started circuit, and particularly the thick cables that run from the battery, to the frame, and to the solenoid and onto the starter motor. Give them a clean, tighten, and a quick spray of WD40.

Speedo
This could be the bike complaining that you are a laydeee rider and it has not been treated to a blast over 30mph yet!! Kidding again!!!

Could be three things. The actual speedo = unlikely, the cable = maybe, the speedo drive = possibly.

Put the bike on the centrestand if you have one, and disconnect the speedo cable from the drive unit. Tilt the bike back so the front wheel is airborn and turn the front wheel. Can you see the little slot inside the drive (where the cable would mesh to) turning? If yes, suspect the cable. If NO, the drive can be replaced (expensive) or rebuilt Transalp Speedo Drive Repair
When my speedo drive packed up, it also fouled up inside, making a horrible noise and making the front wheel hard to turn, and the bike to push. Could this be confused with your neutral fault??

Sidestand Switch
Again, the bike is complaining that it is being ridden by a female and spends too much time being admired and not thrashed! Last one, I promise!!

This could be your most simple one. It may be just dirty or gummed up, so keep squirting WD40 into it whilst working the switch in and out. If it don't work, you aint gonna make things any worse! Hopefully this will sort it out.

The worse one
I think to be fair the bike has just had enough of you, and is digging it's heel in refusing to move. Try whispering into one of the mirrors that you WILL promise NOT to take it shopping any more, and will go for a nice long blast as soon as it's better !! I couldn't resist it!!

OK, you've check the oil grade, level, clutch adjustment etc.

What springs to my mind are the following...

Chain. Is it lubed, and adjusted OH SO slackly sir?
Belive it or not, a badly adjusted chain will also affect your gearchanges AND finding neutral.

Rear wheel bearings. Get the rear wheel airborn, try turning it in neutral, with the clutch in, and preferably after you've slipped the chain off the sprocket as well.

Rear Brake. Is it binding on the rear disc and making pushing hard?

Pray it is nothing inside the gearbox department, which I'd be surprised if it was. It may ne worth checking the output shaft and the shaft bearing, but I'd do that last, and after taking a few valium.


OK, there's a few pointers then, which I hope are of some use.


Good Luck


Bob

[1gear1brake]

Does the sidestand switch function properly despite the light not working? If so it could be the bulb.

My neutral light was playing up a while back. It turned out to be a broken clutch switch. It was removed and/or bypassed (not sure, my mate did it for me). Now I can't start the bike in gear with the clutch in but it works fine otherwise.

I also had a clutch problem especially noticeable with bike on the centre stand, in neutral with the engine running when the back wheel would spin quite fast and was not easy to stop with my boot. Also, when at a standstill with the clutch in, I felt the bike try to lurch forward if I blipped the throttle. The problem was with the clutch basket. Where the clutch plates engaged with the basket, it had developed small notches and prevented the plates from disengaging properly when the clutch was pulled in. A local mechanic carefully filed the notches flat and now it is fine. You can probably only do this once and next time it will be a case of replacing the basket.

[Annette]

as a fellow new forester i hope you dont give up on your bike or enjoying riding it but if it has to go into repair you can use my old girl if it means you keep riding. (ime having a fling with a crf)

mel thanks for the comments I'll be taking a look. You're an angel for the offer of a lend of your bike. If it's the one in the picture Stormforce8 would never let me near it. Every time he sees a picture of it he drools into the keyboard.

No chance of giving it up. They're just niggles that can be sorted. Once that's done I'll be enjoying it a lot more again.

Annette

[Lumiya]

1. Battery Problem? My bike has always started first time, no problem what so ever. I went to work this morning. When I tried to start the bike this afternoon the battery was completely flat.....absolutely no power in it at all. Now I know batteries do go, and not having had the bike long I don't know when the battery was last changed, but I always thought they died over a period of time..ie slow starting and such. But this just completely died. Fine this morning, dead this afternoon. I don't have any gadgets on my bike to draw power. So has the battery just given up the ghost or could it be something more serious? I have ordered a new battery just to be on the safe side, but will put the optimate on it tomorrow when I get to work to charge it so I can get it home again (obviously this happened at the most inconvenient time and I got stuck at work).

2. The speedo just stopped working. Having looked at the cabling it was in a funny position at the wheel end and had a kink in it. The kink has now been routed correctly. It showed a bit of life but then didn't work again. Does this mean that the cable could be broken inside and I need a new one?

3. The side stand switch light does not work.

4. This is probably the most serious fault and I have no idea what could be causing it. On starting the bike the neutral light stays on and stays on for about 10-15 minutes whatever gear I'm in, although the bike rides fine. I can only select neutral gear at about 2500rpm. It is impossible to get the bike into neutral on idle even when fully warmed up. Also when trying to push the bike in neutral it is very hard. Feels like it is still in gear (and I'm not just being a girl as I can push Stormforce8's bike much more easily). The clutch cable is adjusted correctly and I can't see any damage to it. It has the correct type of oil and is filled correctly, and I am at a loss as to what could be causing this.

Annette

1. Battery: The starter is the most power consuming thing on the bike, so if the battery is a bit flat the starter will make it appear totally dead even though it might be OK to run the bike on. But check the simple things to begin with like battery electrolyte level, terminals properly bolted on, and if all OK then check the charge voltage from the reg to the battery (should be around 14.4v at around mid revs. If still OK then suspect the battery.
2. Speddo: When kinked the cable inside has problems turning and turn snap, replace and reroute. BUT! last time this happened to me the bike had been stood for a bit and the needle was actually sticking and nothing to do with the cable
3. SideStand switch, A lot of people disconnect them could this be the case with the previous owner, other than that just check with a continuity meter. If OK then check rest of the wiring and the buld. Some are attached to the interlock diode along with the clutch lever switch so might be a problem with that if you cant find anything else.
4. Neutral switch, sounds like it's sticking though normally they stick in the off position, check the wiring and also check to see if it's not the same interlock diode problem causing both light faults!!! As for the difficulty selecting neutral and as you;ve checked the oil it could be the sign of a worn selector drum which could also account for the neutral switch [roblem though maybe not as I'm not sure where the switch is actuated from on the @.

[Annette]

Bob thanks for that. I'll even overlook the "girl" comments for all the help. This is where I've to to

Annette

Some food for thought on your problems.

Battery
Did you leave your curlers plugged into the bike? Just kidding!!! - no curlers must have been the hair straighteners!!

Funny things happen to perfectly good bikes as the the cold weather arrives, especially if they live outside.
As you try to start it, do the headlights dim? Does the solenoid or starter motor just click? These are a sure sign it IS the battery, however if the headlights remain bright, and it doesn't have the gut to turn over, you're looking at the started circuit, and particularly the thick cables that run from the battery, to the frame, and to the solenoid and onto the starter motor. Give them a clean, tighten, and a quick spray of WD40. From what you've said here it's definitely the battery. I've changed it today (4 x Duracelll D batteries are OK aren't they). Kidding, only took half an hour to change it...and without any male supervision what so ever and it starts fine.

Speedo
This could be the bike complaining that you are a laydeee rider and it has not been treated to a blast over 30mph yet!! Kidding again!!! Does it go as slow as 30?

Could be three things. The actual speedo = unlikely, the cable = maybe, the speedo drive = possibly.

Put the bike on the centrestand if you have one, and disconnect the speedo cable from the drive unit. I've no centre stand yet but I can put it on a paddock stand (muscles are already flexing in anticipation ) Tilt the bike back so the front wheel is airborn and turn the front wheel. Can you see the little slot inside the drive (where the cable would mesh to) turning? If yes, suspect the cable. If NO, the drive can be replaced (expensive) or rebuilt Transalp Speedo Drive Repair
When my speedo drive packed up, it also fouled up inside, making a horrible noise and making the front wheel hard to turn, and the bike to push. Could this be confused with your neutral fault?? I'll take a look at this at the weekend. There is a bit of a funny vibrating noise but it's fairly quiet so it could be the speedo drive so therefore it could be causing the neutral fault.

Sidestand Switch
Again, the bike is complaining that it is being ridden by a female and spends too much time being admired and not thrashed! Last one, I promise!! Admired - it could be complaining it's not cleaned enough and looking very grubby beside Stormforce8's gleaming, sexy machine.

This could be your most simple one. It may be just dirty or gummed up, so keep squirting WD40 into it whilst working the switch in and out. If it don't work, you aint gonna make things any worse! Hopefully this will sort it out. Again I'll give this a go at the weekend.

The worse one
I think to be fair the bike has just had enough of you, and is digging it's heel in refusing to move. Try whispering into one of the mirrors that you WILL promise NOT to take it shopping any more, and will go for a nice long blast as soon as it's better !! I couldn't resist it!! The only shopping it gets is to Infinity for bike bits...Even a bike couldn't complain at that. Could just be fed up of going to work and needs a holiday

OK, you've check the oil grade, level, clutch adjustment etc.

What springs to my mind are the following...

Chain. Is it lubed, and adjusted OH SO slackly sir?
Belive it or not, a badly adjusted chain will also affect your gearchanges AND finding neutral. Chain is perfect. I thought it was a bit slack compared to my F650GS, but I'm told it's just right and I have a scottoiler which is working perfectly. So I think I can discount this. Both chain and sprockets and in extremely good condition.

Rear wheel bearings. Get the rear wheel airborn, try turning it in neutral, with the clutch in, and preferably after you've slipped the chain off the sprocket as well. Again I'll try this again at the weekend. Didn't even think of that one.

Rear Brake. Is it binding on the rear disc and making pushing hard? Not as far as I can see but I'll check it out.

Pray it is nothing inside the gearbox department, which I'd be surprised if it was. It may ne worth checking the output shaft and the shaft bearing, but I'd do that last, and after taking a few valium.


OK, there's a few pointers then, which I hope are of some use.


Good Luck


Bob

Thanks for all your advice BobA. Looks like I'm going to have a busy weekend. This means I'll finally get to bring MY bike into the kitchen

[Annette]

Kymmy thanks for the advice. So far:

1. Battery: The starter is the most power consuming thing on the bike, so if the battery is a bit flat the starter will make it appear totally dead even though it might be OK to run the bike on. But check the simple things to begin with like battery electrolyte level, terminals properly bolted on, and if all OK then check the charge voltage from the reg to the battery (should be around 14.4v at around mid revs. If still OK then suspect the battery. As I didn't know when the battery was last/if ever changed and the bike lives outside I have changed it. It did look old and not in good condition.
2. Speddo: When kinked the cable inside has problems turning and turn snap, replace and reroute. BUT! last time this happened to me the bike had been stood for a bit and the needle was actually sticking and nothing to do with the cable It was working fine and then just stopped on the way home from work the other day, and I think it is probably that the cable has been damaged due to the kink. Hopefully it's just the cable and not the drive as BobA thinks it could possibly be.
3. SideStand switch, A lot of people disconnect them could this be the case with the previous owner, other than that just check with a continuity meter. If OK then check rest of the wiring and the buld. Some are attached to the interlock diode along with the clutch lever switch so might be a problem with that if you cant find anything else. Now this is where I admit it.. I don't know what a continuity meter is. I'm just about ok with mechanical things but electrical just stumps me. But I'm sure Stormforce8 has one and he can show me how to use it. It actually works OK just the light doesn't illuminate so it could have been disconnected.
4. Neutral switch, sounds like it's sticking though normally they stick in the off position, check the wiring and also check to see if it's not the same interlock diode problem causing both light faults!!! As for the difficulty selecting neutral and as you;ve checked the oil it could be the sign of a worn selector drum which could also account for the neutral switch [roblem though maybe not as I'm not sure where the switch is actuated from on the @. I don't know where the selector drum is but I'll find it and check it out.

Kymmy you're an angel, thanks for all the pointers.

Annette

[Annette]

Thanks everyone for your help. I haven't answered everyone separately but I really appreciate the time you've taken to help me out. Beers on me some time. Yes even you BobA

I'll print this lot off and run through it all at the weekend, and hopefully can get the problems all sorted out and get the bike running properly.

I think Cie's popping in on Friday. Do you think that if I stand around with a spanner and screwdriver looking blonde he might help Actually I'm quite looking forward to doing all this as I really want to understand how my bike works and what things go wrong and why.

I just hope we've got enough latex gloves, as I really, really, really hate having oily fingernails

Annette

[GSPD750]

Evening All
4. This is probably the most serious fault and I have no idea what could be causing it. On starting the bike the neutral light stays on and stays on for about 10-15 minutes whatever gear I'm in, although the bike rides fine. I can only select neutral gear at about 2500rpm. It is impossible to get the bike into neutral on idle even when fully warmed up. Also when trying to push the bike in neutral it is very hard. Feels like it is still in gear (and I'm not just being a girl as I can push Stormforce8's bike much more easily). The clutch cable is adjusted correctly and I can't see any damage to it. It has the correct type of oil and is filled correctly, and I am at a loss as to what could be causing this.
Annette

I'll touch on the more serious one. When you push the bike in neutral and you say it feels like it's in gear...is it because it MAY still be in gear... because you mention the lite stays on for 15 min regardless of what gear it is in? Does the back wheel drag and skid on the ground ? With the bike on the center stand the rear wheel SHOULD spin freely with one finger on the spokes pushing. I can't see your chain being so tight that it affects turning the wheel...but check anyway.
To investigate further on the difficult shifting you will have to remove the r/h engine side cover and clutch assy including oil pump chain and sprocket.
Not a big deal really. It will only cost you a cover gasket and a bit of labour. Check that the problem does not lie in the clutch at this time and that everything is ok there. Once those are off you will see the following in the illustration below or go to page 2-46 of the Haynes for some great pictures. Item 3 is the selector arm which goes thru both crankcases (your shift lever attaches to the one end) and should be straight with no damage and free to turn in the bores. If this is bent from a previous tip over it could cause grief. The hook looking thingy on item 3 engages on the cam plate item 10. Go thru the gears by hand checking for anything hanging up. The stopper arm assy item 6 should ride smoothly on the cam plate.
If the difficult shifting does not lie herein and your clutch is working properly then it can get ugly if the selector drum or transmission is at fault which entails splitting the cases.
Removing the neutral switch is easy enough (not the problem IMO) but you could inspect it by removing the front sprocket cover. I don't believe the problem is twofold. If you fix the difficult shifting you have fixed the neutral lite. Also, if you go to page 2-62 of the Haynes it shows a great picture at the top left where the neutral contact on the selector drum comes against the switch.