Suspension

[samwise]

Fork springs

Touratech (http://www.touratech.de) offer the Wirth springs

All years 01-040-0465-0

Hagon (http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/FS_Apps_list.htm)

All years 500-103-00 (7.5wt oil, 140mm air gap recommended)

Rear shocks

Hagon (http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk)

1988-94 M61065
1995 on M61071

Dirt Bike (http://www.dirtbike.at/suspension/wp_emushocks.html) in Austria show the WP damper

1988-94 WP17.14.J9.49
1995 on WP17.14.P9.50

Hyperpro (http://www.hyperpro.com)

1988-94 HO06-026S Type 040
1988-94 HO06-126S Type 041
1995 on HO06-027S Type 040
1995 on HO06-127S Type 041

Type 040 'Emulsion Type' rear shock with:

Rebound damping adjustment.
Spring preload adjuster ring.
Progressive spring.
'O' Rings for stroke adjustment.
Ride height adjustment.

Type 041 'GP Type' rear shock. Spec as above with the following additional features:

Remote reservoir with hose connection.
High speed compression damping adjustment.
Low speed compression damping adjustment.
Lock bolt for preload adjuster ring.

Technoflex (http://www.technoflex-suspension.com/ENG/Home/Home_interface_eng.html)

1988-94 55308-815-575 Standard
1988-94 55208-815-575 Remote reservoir
1995 on 55308-815-577 Standard
1995 on 55208-815-577 Remote reservoir

[findommi]

Hello Samwise,

Have you Hagon M61065 installed in your bike?

I bought Hagon and tried to install it. Only problem was that down fork on this shock didn't fit to my bike. It was too thight. I measured my bike's bearing part and it was appr. 32mm and Hagon fork clearance is 30mm.

What should I do? Just open the fork a little with force :(


- findommi

[samwise]

Hi Fin

I do have the Hagon on my bike, but it was fitted when it was serviced last year, so unfortunately I don't know if there were any problems.

[findommi]

Ok. Thanks.

I have to think couple of days what to do...


-findommi

[lreal]

Related suspension i have no other way than showing my experience although one part of it is part of my business.

Please, do not consider this as advertising, it is just sharing my experience ( from user pesrpective as well as from system design )

REAR SUSPENSION:

I made a big bet expending 600 Euro on a Fournales all air rear spring to be fitted on my 12 years old dominator.
After thinking one time and other i made the decision.
I fitted it with no problem, put 26 bar on it for my weight and started to ride a bit anxious i recognise ( it was 1,5 years ago ).
First experience : good absorption of asphalt roughness as well as through "tumbled cops" as we call in Spain to some 3 meters long bumps used in the cities for zebra crossing.
Amazing: very good control of rear end.
Following day i made the off-road test : simply ; GREAT . You know that Domis are not very good on suspensions; with Fournales air damping spring it is able to follow very well the path you choose without discontrolling back end ; ¿ Traction ? VERY MUCH IMPROVED . I have a "circuit" of around 30 Km around the place where i live, and there are several uphill ways with many many loose stones and big fixed rocks ; it was amazing how that ****ing rear end pushed both my and my bike uphill ... very good.
That spring is ACTUALLY PROGRESSIVE , not depending on complex damping systems bla bla bla, and the driver can notice it very easily (mainly in bikes with not good suspensions solution).

FRONT SUSPENSION:

Me with some partners created a small company mainly dedicated to suspension systems. I am in charge of Technical area. We have developed an innovative system for front suspension : for forks .
You know well that what market offer for front end improvement are basically different fork springs than original and very very expensive solution by changing forks by aftermarket USD systems such as Wh*te P*w*r , *hl*ns , M*rzz*ch* , ...
To do this, you have to spend many many money and change also the stem; and you are changing the structural desing from Honda ...
With all these inputs, I started to design what I call HYBRID FORK SUSPENSION ( HFS ) .
- Hybrid : combination of an AIR SPRING with an helicoidal spring
- Fork : it is for forks ( not USD , for the time being )
- Suspension : It was born to improve front suspensions
I have made several design cycles until I reached the commercial model, but few months ago here it is.
Now we sell for Hondas ( Africa Twin, Transalp, Dominator ) , Yamahas (XT600E , XT-660-R , XTZ750 Super Tenere ) and BMW ( F650 GS Dakar , F650 , and very close for launching F650 GS and R80 / R100 ).

What does it improve : you may better read our web page www.bytoto.com ( my signature link you to the web ) , but in my words, it is simply FANTASTIC
Many of you may think : its normal , its his babe and on top of it is his business 8) and you are partially right ( it is human way of thinking ) ... but I am expressing impartially ; you can not imagine how that easy-to-bottom and not-sensible front suspension has improved ; it is amazing , it gives you the feeling as if you were driving a much more expensive system such as USD in KTMs ... ; it absorbs all that it founds in its way , bumps, hits, rocks, ... really no bottom-up , no wheel disk knok against rocks ( and I drive with 1,3 bar in my front tire ... ) ... simply amazing.
Your way or driving changes : front end gives you such confidence that you virtually forget about it ; you may find bumps or stones when you are cornering off-road ; it does not matter, you follow with your path and HFS takes care of it , very very good
It is actually PROGRESSIVE because gas behaviour is PROGRESSIVE ; and combinated with an specific steel helicoidal spring, bottom performance is improved by around 10% ( it depends on initial pressure set-up ).
It is variable because you can ADJUST SAG changing the pressure set up ; I ride with 3,75 bar on each leg.

Today's ride detail pic:
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7295/dscn38593dg.jpg

If you have read until here this passionate brick, congratulations , but when I talk about HFS I have no limit :twisted: This is the best VALUE FOR MONEY solution to actually improve front fork suspension.

Cheers :wink:

[MacP]

Hi have you got any info on these components fitted to an Africa Twin? (Sorry Samwise for taking this a bit off topic but I'm interested... :D )

[findommi]

Hi again Samwise,

Is it possible for you to check what kind of down fork is in your Hagon? Is the inner clearance 30mm? Is it modified, bended or filed someway to fit the bike's needle bearing body? What kind of bolt goes through the fork, is the nut welded to fork or is it separate? Digipicture could be nice also.

I know this sounds weird but I'm desperate and curious at the same time. :?


- findommi

[samwise]

The fork at the bottom that the bolts passes through, connecting to the linkage:

http://samwise.smugmug.com/photos/66263027-M.jpg

is 30mm.

It's a bolt through:

http://samwise.smugmug.com/photos/66262886-M.jpg

with a Nyloc 17mm nut on the other end

http://samwise.smugmug.com/photos/66263213-M.jpg

Does that help?

Other pics here (http://samwise.smugmug.com/gallery/1400652) - I can maybe take more tomorrow night if you need them.

[findommi]

Hi,

Thanks a lot. Good pics. Atleast I believe now that it is possible to install this shock to my bike. I think I'm going to open the fork little 1-2mm and just install it :) . Maybe that's how it is ment to be.

I think it doesn't matter if the "HAGON" text in shock is to right hand side or to left hand side.

- findommi

[samwise]

My Hagon script is on the chain side of the bike, but wouldn't have thought it made a difference.

[findommi]

Problem solved. I bought a new inner tube of the link bearing by Honda dealer. It was about 1mm shorter than the original one. It is still a little mystery why it was as it was. But I have now the shock installed in my bike.

By the way I have number 079 in my fork :shock:

Thanks for help.

-findommi

[lreal]

Hi have you got any info on these components fitted to an Africa Twin? (Sorry Samwise for taking this a bit off topic but I'm interested... :D )

Hi MacP
Sorry for replying you late but last days i was busy busy busy ...

I have asked for actual user opinion; he mainly uses his AT on road at the moment because he is waiting for off-road specific tires for testing his new system; he tried one or two times but with on-road tires and he wants to do it more througly.

I have taken his opinion in two different conditions on-road and I have translated with my own words into english :oops: so i do not mind if you laugh a little , je je je

Here it is:
Literal opinión of a spanish user:
“Una cosa que me ha sorprendido muy gratamente es el paso por las bandas que ponen para reducir la velocidad en los pueblos. Todos los días paso por un pueblo que tiene bandas de goma que son muy altas y estoy "jugando" a pasarlas frenando fuerte.... y no pasa nada; hacer esto con el muelle es impensable ya que lo más fácil es que la horquilla te haga un tope escandaloso y termines por los suelos. También he notado que al pasar por los pasos de cebra elevados es más suave en el momento del "impacto". Antes siempre me ponía de pie para pasarlos, ahora los estoy pasando sentado para verificar el comportamiento de la horquilla y no hay duda, es mucho más suave con el aire, lo que pega el rebote es la suspensión trasera.

Las frenadas en carretera han mejorado bastante y ahora cuesta mas bloquear la rueda delantera, también se nota que en frenadas bruscas y fuertes la moto se "descompone" mucho menos, por no decir que no se "descompone" nada. Con la "descomposición" me refiero a que cuando frenas muy fuerte y de golpe, lo normal es que se produzca una transferencia de pesos "salvaje" a la rueda delantera y que la parte trasera se quede "bailando" al quedarse sin carga, esto se traduce en movimientos en la parte posterior y, en muchos casos, en bloqueos indeseados de la rueda trasera. En el recorrido que hago a diario para volver a casa tengo una frenada de 170 a 100 con buenas referencias para apurar, pero creo que con tu invento voy a tener que retrasar las referencias...

My translation:
Something that has positively surprised me is crossing over the bumps existing in the main streets across small towns. Every day I cross one small town with very high rubber bands and I’m “playing” crossing them with hard breaking simultaneously …and nothing happens; to do this with a spring is unbelibeble because it is much more than probable that the fork bottom up very heavily. I have also noticed that in high level zebra crossings, the “impact” moment is now softer. Before I always used to stand up on my bike, and now I am crossing them sat on the bike to check out the new fork’s behaviour, and I have no doubt, it is softer now in comparison with original ( now the hit comes from the read suspension).

Braking on road has improved a lot; now blocking limit is higher, and I also notice that in quick severe braking the bike “dismantles” less than before, if not saying that it has no single feeling of “dismantling”. With “dismantling” I am referring to the effect that happens when you brake very heavily, then the load transfer from rear axle to the front happens very quickly, and the trend is to easily block the rear axle, then pulling aside, … In my daily run going to work I have one very good braking from 170 to 100 with very good references; I think that with your invention I’ll have to put my reference later …

Another one:
Sobre el comportamiento de la horquilla y a pesar de lo poco que estoy cogiendo la moto, ya estoy convencido definitivamente de que en las curvas rápidas del todo, es decir en las que no hay que cortar nada, la moto va mucho mejor: entra en la curva con menos esfuerzo y transmite más confianza que con los muelles..

Translation:
About fork’s behavior and considering that I am using my bike very few, I am definitively convinced that in fast curves , I mean in those in which you do not have to touch brakes or engine retention at all, bike performs much better: It takes cornering with lower effort and transmits more confidence than original springs

-----------------------------------------------------------
MacP, thanks and if you have any other additional question please tell me.

I am thinkking how to organise somethink in the UK to show and try the system but i do not find some simpe to do ... let's think

Cheers

[RD03 Barbie]

Anyone have any experience with by Toto? looks a bit like the BiTubo spring and cartridge.:?: