Facet fuel pump installation...long

[GSPD750]

I have had my share of fuel pump woes in the past on my '99 @ and now I feel I have finally solved them with the recent install of this US made solid state Facet pump. Model # 40105

The original OEM pump failed after the contacts burned out. Probably not a 'bad' pump once it was modified for a suppressor to prevent the contacts from pitting. But the new OEM pump does not come cheap. $$ Alternative? Yes.

Next...the nice people at African Queens sent me the Mikuni vacum pump.
It seemed to be the answer, and after a few thousand kms it was performing flawlessly. Then it seemed in hot weather conditions I would experience fuel starvation symptoms. Fuel was somehow bypassing and blocking the vacum source..apparently. The 'T' fitting trap mod from AQ
did not seem to work. It was from the South African AT Club that I first heard of the Facet pump.

Ok, for only $29 USD plus shipping I can experiment. The first model of pump I ordered was #40106. The claimed pump pressure on this model
is 4-6 psi. Another web source claims the pump pressure is 4-5.5 psi. I quickly installed this pump (hot wired) for a rally I attended.
After 2,000 kms round trip it worked perfectly. Having not yet hard wired it to the fuel cutoff relay I occasionally would forget to unplug it (as it was wired direct to the battery) and after shutting the ignition off the pump would continue to run and fuel would spew out the carb overflows via the drain tube onto the ground. No problem, once I permanently hard wired it it to the fuel cutoff relay that fuel spill would be eliminated.

I now permanently hardwired the model 40106 in and drove it hard and fast. It was then I noticed a small amount of fuel coming from the carb overflows when idling at a stop. Mmmm....It was small enough to piss me off and it was telling me this pump pressure is just a wee bit on the high side.

Ok, I now ordered in the Facet Model # 40105. Claimed pressure is 2.5 - 4.5 psi, depending on the web source, I have also read where pressure is 2.5 - 3.0.
FYI. The pump model numbers are stamped on the pump mounts.


Time to install the 40105.

http://gspd750.smugmug.com/photos/36869076-S.jpg

The pump measures less than 3" in any direction and weighs in at 18 oz.

http://gspd750.smugmug.com/photos/36869080-S.jpg

Lets cut off the pump mounts which are not req'd.

http://gspd750.smugmug.com/photos/36869083-S.jpg

Sand off any sharp edges.

http://gspd750.smugmug.com/photos/36869091-S.jpg

Well ain't that special. The OEM pump rubber shock mount fits right over the Facet pump. Its a tight fit but it can be done. A little silicon spray on the rubber eased the installation.

http://gspd750.smugmug.com/photos/33806334-S.jpg

Lets slightly bend the mounting supports upwards and downwards on the frame to accomodate the Facet.

http://gspd750.smugmug.com/photos/33806332-S.jpg

To install you simply push it onto the supports. Views are fuel "IN".

http://gspd750.smugmug.com/photos/36869100-S.jpg

http://gspd750.smugmug.com/photos/36869096-S.jpg

Fuel "OUT"

http://gspd750.smugmug.com/photos/36869074-S.jpg

Fittings are 1/8" IPT

http://gspd750.smugmug.com/photos/36883074-S.jpg

Connecting the wires is straight forward. You can use your old connector
from the OEM pump and splice it in. Fuel hoses have to be shortened
accordlingly. I have only a few hundred kms on the 40105 and so far I am very pleased with the performance and no overflow spillage.

So, just thought I would share with what works for me. And of course, the usual disclaimer. :lol:

Wayne

ps. don't forget a few wraps of teflon tape on the threads of the brass fittings or you may have a leak.

http://www.arbovirus.health.nsw.gov.au/about/connector_withtape.jpg

[DaveS]

Very interesting
Now to find where to buy one on-line.
After a bit of googling I see that they are used a lot for aviation which supports the idea of longevity!

I also found this:

Type 40105 is 12V negative ground 2 1/2 to 4 1/2 PSI max 30 GPH 1/8 x 27 internal pipe ports

Type 40106 is 12V negative ground 4-6 PSI Max 30 GPH 1/8 x 27 internal pipe ports

Another site says:

Facet Fuel pump 40105 - K
Road use. Flow Rate 12 gals/hr. 2.5-3.0 PSI

Facet Fuel pump 40106 - K
Fast road use. 18 Gals/hr. 5.0-6.0 PSI.


Which confirms your theory on the pump pressures.

http://www.lightaero.co.uk/las/9/55?id=69 - £24.27
http://www.sky-craft.co.uk/ - £14.00

I've asked Skycraft if they have them in stock and whether we could bulk order from them.

[GSPD750]

http://www.sky-craft.co.uk/ - £14.00

I've asked Skycraft if they have them in stock and whether we could bulk order from them.

Wow! 14 UK pounds from Skycraft. Is that a typo? Thats cheaper than buying direct from the USA. At that price everyone can afford to pack one as a spare.

[modrover]

Once again... very nice report! :wink:

[londonbubble]

When i bought my bike earlier this year, it already had a facet pump fitted, i had never heard of Facet before so i was a bit concerned as to wether it was any good or not.

After putting the AT through its paces on a six thousand mile trip this summer through a variety of different weather the pump passed with flying colours. I have asked my local bike shop about facet pumps and he said they were very good pumps. I did not realise that they were that cheap so i may buy a spare any way.

London Bubble

[banger]

On the skycraft web site today for £12 !!!!!!!!!

[Moose]

Plus the dreaded VAT = £14.10

[DaveS]

http://www.sky-craft.co.uk/ - £14.00

I've asked Skycraft if they have them in stock and whether we could bulk order from them.

Wow! 14 UK pounds from Skycraft. Is that a typo? Thats cheaper than buying direct from the USA. At that price everyone can afford to pack one as a spare.

Right I've had a response back from SkyCraft.
They are aircraft breakers and therefore don't stock them new, hence the cost as well.
I've asked how many they do have.

[YEN_POWELL]

I WANT ONE....AND I WANT IT NOW

[xrv_jim]

Yeah, me too. I haven't had any problems with the stock pump but it's only a matter of time...hope I get home tonight :cry:

[GSPD750]

Great to hear of another testimonial. Nice to have someone back me up
here. :lol:



When i bought my bike earlier this year, it already had a facet pump fitted, i had never heard of Facet before so i was a bit concerned as to wether it was any good or not.

After putting the AT through its paces on a six thousand mile trip this summer through a variety of different weather the pump passed with flying colours. I have asked my local bike shop about facet pumps and he said they were very good pumps. I did not realise that they were that cheap so i may buy a spare any way.

London Bubble

[DaveS]

Right then they only had 2 and I've bought both.

When I've got them. I'll offer 1 up for sale here, with any small profit going to the upkeep of the site. ;-)

So where else can we get them and where's the cheapest?

[GSPD750]

Check out the following.

http://www.fuelsystem.co.uk/web-facet.pdf

The cheapest I've seen them in the USA is at Aircraft Spruce and
Specialty Co. for $28.60 USD

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/facetpumps.php

[DaveS]

I've just asked them about importing 10 to see what the P&P would be.
If so I'd do that and sell them on the site to benefit everyone.

[Jim Rowley]

I've just asked them about importing 10

Good thing I placed my order last night. :lol:
Jim.

[GSPD750]

Just a couple of more notes on the Facet install. The round rubber shock mount can be a bitch to stretch over this square pump. So you may have to heat the rubber with a heat gun or apply some grease or silicone lube. It can be done without splitting the rubber. When I switched over to the other model Facet pump the rubber had already taken on a squarish shape and the 2nd install was easy. The rubber shock mount can also be ordered from Honda as it is separate from the pump.

Also, ensure you apply a wrap of teflon tape on the pipe threads.
See pic for scale. Fittings are 1/8 X 27 internal pipe threads which can be sourced at most auto part stores. You want the inside diam. of a 1/4" as seen from the end view where your hose attaches.
Ahhh...pics say it all. :lol:

http://gspd750.smugmug.com/photos/37894435-S.jpg

[Jim Rowley]

Awesome detailed instructions. :thumbup: Thanks again, Wayne.
Jim.

[HelmetHair]

Why oh Why didn't I look here before replacing my pump (with a Honda superprice original)
and out of interest, if your oem pump does die 100 miles from anywhere, give it a twatting with a spanner while you turn it over on the starter to get it ticking over again, and then replace it
Apologies if I am telling you all how to suck eggs!
ps this my first post! :D

[modrover]

OK... one of you folks will know this.

The part numbers are different for a fuel pump on XRV650 and a XRV750. I like the Facet pump, but this was installed on the XRV750 and don't know if it work well with the XRV650. I know pumps have different flow rates and such so... any of you folks know what the differences are between the XRV650 pump from XRV750 pump? Are they interchangeable? I mean, they're probably not right... why the hell do they have different parts numbers then?! :P :wink:

[petes350]

Hi,

New to this site but have found it very useful and informative so far.

My bike (AT 2000 23k miles) cut out on the way to work yesterday, having never done this before (or in the 100 miles since).

I have ridden it in the wet a number of times in the year that I've owned it without any problems, and yesterday was only a little damp here by comparison to last week's commuting.

The bike cut out and sounded/felt like fuel starvation. Given what I've read about the fuel pumps, this is the prime suspect and I've ordered a replacement - the Facet pump as detailed earlier in this thread.

The new pump should turn up in the next day or so, but I haven't been able to find any of the pipe connectors (1/8 x 27 internal pipe ports) as photographed earlier in the thread.

Does anyone have any ideas where to get these? I've tried a couple of auto parts stores but they seem to have no ideas. I've done a few web searches and still nothing. I'm reluctant to ask someone to make them if I can buy them cheaply/easily somewhere.

Any ideas greatly appreciated,

Thanks,

Pete

[Chad]

well dave if you manage to get enough orders to buy them i will deffo have one to keep as a spare. ive not had problems yet . but ive probably put the curse of death on the pump now ive said that :shock:

[Chad]

hi everybody ive put a post in the links section for vehicle wiring products
these guys do the facet pump as well . but seem pricey at £39 but worth a look though :)

[YEN_POWELL]

OK... one of you folks will know this.

The part numbers are different for a fuel pump on XRV650 and a XRV750. I like the Facet pump, but this was installed on the XRV750 and don't know if it work well with the XRV650. I know pumps have different flow rates and such so... any of you folks know what the differences are between the XRV650 pump from XRV750 pump? Are they interchangeable? I mean, they're probably not right... why the hell do they have different parts numbers then?! :P :wink:Could be the same reason my two Honda pumps had different part numbers. The second one was the modified version that would supposedly last longer before self destructing. The only outside difference was that the inlet and outlet pipes were reversed. The flow rate was presumably the same. The Honda service manual gives the flow rates for the fuel pump.

[macosie]

Great infor here. Kinda posting so this doesn't get lost.

[macosie]

Hey GSPD750, I think I need to bow to you and beg forgiveness...
Tried to install an alternate way so I wouldn't have to reroute the fuel line so far. Ya... Comes down to do I feel like hauling out the Airbox, batterie and all else to get access to the spot I need to work in. Can't get my hands in to cut off the old mounts. Tooooooooooo much a hassle. I'm currently looking for a new boot to hopefully fit around the pump and some more hose to reroute the fuel line. your way is definitely simpler. Thanks.

[GSPD750]

I'm currently looking for a new boot to hopefully fit around the pump and Thanks.

You can get a new rubber shock mount from Honda.

part # 16711-MN8-000

[John]

OK, did mine today and here are a couple of extra thoughts:

Dremels are for girls. :lol: I just used an angle grinder to remove the mounting tabs. No probs. Actually I was about to buy a Dremel, but decided I'd rather spend the cash on other things and had a rethink!

I stuck the rubber mount into the microwave to heat it up. Works very well. Rather than just heating up the outside like a hot air gun would, this gets it really hot right through.

Getting the mount onto the Facet is quite a feat. Brute force helps. If I didn't know that it could be done, I might have given up!

Something that I found useful was a couple of bits of plastic strapping from a parcel to pull the rubber out with. It's difficult otherwise because you can't get your fingers in. Didn't need any lube.

http://a23.org/attachments/straps.jpg

Not a very good picture, but it should give you the idea. BTW this is on wrong -- the pump goes with the short edge to the frame, not the long one, otherwise you'll never get it to fit the mounts. Guess how I know . . .

[c stillythemanwivno]

the red and black wire on the pump what colour goes to what i have a green wire from my bike and a blue and black wire not sure what goes were :oops: help

[c stillythemanwivno]

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[xrv_jim]

the red and black wire on the pump what colour goes to what i have a green wire from my bike and a blue and black wire not sure what goes were :oops: help

At a guess, I think green wires on Honda's are usually 'earth' which would correspond to the black wire on the pump. My Facet is still in the box so perhaps someone who's already done the mod can confirm?

[c stillythemanwivno]

thanks jim you r right its all working fine :D

[macosie]

OK... I installed my pump finally. I gave up on trying to fit the boot so I split it. (Actually tried the microwave method.. and don't recommend it. 10 seconds and it was bubbling in one spot.) My boot was messed up anyway, so this was really an experiment before ordering a new boot. And trying to fit is properly. Although in my mind it's temporary... I'm notorious for seeing how long temporary can last...
This is on an RD03... which doesn't seem to have all the room that the RD07s do (as seen in GSPD750's pics)
Be warned, the following picture isn't pretty...
http://www.dropshots.com/photos/97637/20060515/190034.jpg
note the zip-tie and clamp holding on the split mounting boot.
I also ran 2 90's so I could run the hose in and out of the front of the unit sort of like the original does.
I had to switch the 90s of the output hose one from the top to the bottom because of no clearance above the unit. (Not sure I'm not fond of the location either, but I'm limited. I don't have alot of room to work with.
Here's a crude drawing of the unit.
http://www.dropshots.com/photos/97637/20060516/103249.jpg
Does it work??? It does when I run the power directly to the battery. I think I fried the fuel pump relay when I fried the original fuel pump.

[miggy]

Should have reported a while back that my Facet pump after fitting is working just fine.

[mikmac]

I have just got the same pump but it didnt come with the threaded hose nipples, do you know where i can get some yesterday!

[mikmac]

also the WIRES the red goes to what? The black goes to green on the bike!?

[GSPD750]

also the WIRES the red goes to what? The black goes to green on the bike!?

Are you tapping into the connector where the old pump used to go? If you are then the black wire from the new pump goes to the green wire which is (ground).

The red wire from the new pump goes to the wire that is colored blue/black. That wire in turn goes to the fuel cut-off relay. Its clear in the Haynes manual wiring diagrams if you want to see for yourself.

[mikmac]

cheers

[macosie]

I have just got the same pump but it didnt come with the threaded hose nipples, do you know where i can get some yesterday!

I got my extra hardware at an industrial supply shop that sells fuel hose. Not to specific stuff... then again, my pump is metric, and I live in a metric country... g/l

[mikmac]

Well ive done the fuel pump & it runs fine. :lol:
What a nightmare! Getting that rubber on 'jesus!' :evil: Then when its it the rubber it does'nt go back on the brackets, so you have to bend them so it semi fits on (put cable ties on as well or you will fit the pump rapped around your chain one day) :(
but its done now thank 8)

[mgillespie]

Another pump replacement here. Had a couple of weird moments on the bike, and suspected the pump was playing up (12k miles on the clock). Replaced it with the facet, and going to monitor the situation.

Been for a spin this evening, and everthing seems fine, no leaks, no fuel starvation etc.

Out of interest, where did people put the cable ties? I have one around the body of the pump and the rubber sleeve to stop the pump coming out of the rubber mount, but has anyone tied the mounting up with ties? That still seems a tad dodgy on mine.

[mikmac]

mine was exactly the same very dodgy :roll: so i too used cable ties through the rubber and the through the bracket.

[macosie]

Doggy, yes. I actually ran one tie through a hole in one of the original mount ing bars as a precaution. Another one cinches between the two bars. It's a half-arsed temp botch until I figure out a better way to do it.
I"m not happy with the performance of the pump I bought. I was having a fuel starvation issue, but I'm not sure its totally the pump. Seems to be a charging issue. Bike rides fine with just the pump, but when it's hot and the fan kicks in, or at night, I'm getting too much discharge, and start losing the CDIs, or maybe it's not getting fuel to the cylinder. Don't know... sick of this ****e... I just wanna ride. LOL

[GSPD750]

Out of interest, where did people put the cable ties? I have one around the body of the pump and the rubber sleeve to stop the pump coming out of the rubber mount, but has anyone tied the mounting up with ties? That still seems a tad dodgy on mine.

Did not need cable ties. The slots in the rubber shock mount have to be 90 degrees. I know its difficult to center it onto the pump. Then you have to bend the supports on the frame, top one up and bottom one down, then push it on.

http://gspd750.smugmug.com/photos/36869100-S.jpg

[activmoto]

these pumps are available in the UK, I got one for a Auxiliary tank I fitted to a B*W I had. I will see if I can find the supplier info.
I also used a cut off solenoid, which could also be used as a anti theft device.
The second from last picture shows the pump and soleniod (right)
http://sada.users.btopenworld.com/

Steve

A few on fleay bay
http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll?GetResult&query=facet+fuel+pump&sibeleafcat=122139&sim=y&ssPageName=VINS%3ASIM

[Eyetee]

Thats a good idea, if there is no power to the fuel pump then the bike won't start...right?

[KTiM]

Recently fitted my new pump to my RD-04.

If I hadn't seen it here I would not have thought that the OE pump mounting would have fitted! However, with it heated up (10 secs at 800 in the microwave) then sprint out to the garage whilst juggling the mount from hand to hand to stop it burning me delicate fingers, pump already clamped in vice and wife waiting with straps (ooo-er Mrs) and to help with pulling (stop-it!) it went on! :teeth:

Now on the RD-04 there isn't as much space as the 07 so I have had to set it up with the inlet facing the front of the bike as the inlet has that big hex shaped sticky outy bit, the outlet is therefore towards the back of the bike and there is just enough room for it between the air-box and the top of the shock

http://ktim.smugmug.com/photos/122298000-M.jpg

I therefore needed a longer length of heavy duty petrol hose to take it around the top mount of the shock

http://ktim.smugmug.com/photos/122300432-M.jpg

and then going forward again to connect up with the original fuel line that goes to the carbs.

http://ktim.smugmug.com/photos/122300326-M.jpg

[macosie]

A little choked about my fuel pump. I was having problems keeping it running so I ran for a long while on gravity feed (works over 1/4 tank). My mechanic just tried to fix put it in after a lot f work been done on the bike (will report that in a different thread) but to make a long story short, the cheap facet type pump doesn't work for more than 2 minutes at a time, so the mechanic is sourcing a new one.
Oh well... you live and learn.

[Richie B]

Fitted the facet fuel pump today. I have a confession....

.... I got so annoyed with trying to squeeze the pump into the rubber sleeve that I lost it completely. And chopped the rubber piece of sh*t into a million pieces and jumped up and down on it whilst screaming like a madman....

Now I have to work on a solution to fit the pump (minus rubber sleeve) into the bracket. Current train of thought involves duct tape and cable ties. Open to suggestions! Thanks.

[macosie]

Despite not having a whole lot of luck with mine, I'd still say put a bit of rubber between the base and frame to ease the vibration between the 2.

[Cie]

Up early looking into the whole fuel pump thing, this seems like a whole lot of hassle, with varying results.

Think I might just throw money at it and buy an OEM

[Maverick]

Up early looking into the whole fuel pump thing, this seems like a whole lot of hassle, with varying results.

Think I might just throw money at it and buy an OEM

The pierburg took me the best of ten minutes to fit if that and cost £50 from Hans Motors. Been on the bike for the last 28500 miles with no problems and did not do the electrical relay fix either. That is still way better than what ever the OEM costs mate.

[Cie]

The pierburg took me the best of ten minutes to fit if that and cost £50 from Hans Motors.

I've had a look at the Hans Motors web site and can't see anything relevant there, any chance of a few pointers mate?

[Maverick]

I've had a look at the Hans Motors web site and can't see anything relevant there, any chance of a few pointers mate?

I could point you out to the search facility but instead saving you the time and effort check this thread :D http://www.xrv.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=7949&page=5&highlight=hans+motors

[Cie]

Thanks Mav, I'll see you over there.. with your camera and some piccies? ;)

[spain]

Just ordered me a facet pump as a spare....and some xrv decals.....ok?....ok:p