Balls !!!!

[alpslapper]

Bracknell Royal Naval Association - Them be Cannon Balls

Alpslaper can you give me some proof that this is a myth I'm having a real argument with a soon to be ex pal over this one

Cheers Frad

Here you go mate:

Here


Cartoons of pirate ships always come complete with the usual icons - parrots, peg legs and pyramids of cannon-balls. That's artistic license rather than historical fact. The Royal Navy records that, on their ships at least, cannon-balls were stored in planks with circular holes cut into them - not stacked in pyramids. These planks were known as 'shot garlands', not monkeys, and they date back to at least 1769, when they were first referred to in print.
On dry land, the obvious way to store cannon-balls seems to be by stacking them. On board ship it's a different matter. A little geometry shows that a pyramid of balls will topple over if the base is tilted by more than 30 degrees. This tilting, not to mention any sudden jolting, would have been commonplace on sailing ships. It just isn't plausible that cannon-balls were stacked this way.

For those wanting a bit more detail, here's the science bit. The coefficient of expansion of brass is 0.000019; that of iron is 0.000012. If the base of the stack were one metre long, the drop in temperature needed to make the 'monkey' shrink relative to the balls by just one millimetre, would be around 100 degrees Celsius. Such a small shrinkage wouldn't have had the slightest effect. In any case, in weather like that, the sailors would probably have better things to think about than coining new phrases.

Also:

snopes.com: Brass Monkeys

Also here

It has often been claimed that the "brass monkey" was a holder or storage rack in which cannon balls (or shot) were stacked on a ship. Supposedly when the "monkey" with its stack of cannon ball became cold, the contraction of iron cannon balls led to the balls falling through or off of the "monkey." This explanation appears to be a legend of the sea without historical justification. In actuality, ready service shot was kept on the gun or spar decks in shot racks (also known as shot garlands in the Royal Navy) which consisted of longitudinal wooden planks with holes bored into them, into which round shot (cannon balls) were inserted for ready use by the gun crew. These shot racks or garlands are discussed in: Longridge, C. Nepean. The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships. (Annapolis MD: Naval Institute Press, 1981): 64. A top view of shot garlands on the upper deck of a ship-of-the-line is depicted in The Visual Dictionary of Ships and Sailing. New York: Dorling Kindersley, 1991): 17.


That should do for starters ... if he still doesn't believe you, get back to me

[Lumiya]

The original freezing term for a brass monkey is as follows

The Truth
According to the United States Navy Historical Center, this is a legend of the sea without historical justification. The center has researched this because of the questions it gets and says the term "brass monkey" and a vulgar reference to the effect of cold on the monkey's extremities, appears to have originated in the book "Before the Mast" by C.A. Abbey. It was said that it was so cold that it would "freeze the tail off a brass monkey." The Navy says there is no evidence that the phrase had anything to do with ships or ships with cannon balls.

[alpslapper]

A decent range of references to ''brass monkey'' in literature can be found here.

Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey

[Frad]

Here you go mate:

Here


Cartoons of pirate ships always come complete with the usual icons - parrots, peg legs and pyramids of cannon-balls. That's artistic license rather than historical fact. The Royal Navy records that, on their ships at least, cannon-balls were stored in planks with circular holes cut into them - not stacked in pyramids. These planks were known as 'shot garlands', not monkeys, and they date back to at least 1769, when they were first referred to in print.
On dry land, the obvious way to store cannon-balls seems to be by stacking them. On board ship it's a different matter. A little geometry shows that a pyramid of balls will topple over if the base is tilted by more than 30 degrees. This tilting, not to mention any sudden jolting, would have been commonplace on sailing ships. It just isn't plausible that cannon-balls were stacked this way.

For those wanting a bit more detail, here's the science bit. The coefficient of expansion of brass is 0.000019; that of iron is 0.000012. If the base of the stack were one metre long, the drop in temperature needed to make the 'monkey' shrink relative to the balls by just one millimetre, would be around 100 degrees Celsius. Such a small shrinkage wouldn't have had the slightest effect. In any case, in weather like that, the sailors would probably have better things to think about than coining new phrases.

Also:

snopes.com: Brass Monkeys

Also here

It has often been claimed that the "brass monkey" was a holder or storage rack in which cannon balls (or shot) were stacked on a ship. Supposedly when the "monkey" with its stack of cannon ball became cold, the contraction of iron cannon balls led to the balls falling through or off of the "monkey." This explanation appears to be a legend of the sea without historical justification. In actuality, ready service shot was kept on the gun or spar decks in shot racks (also known as shot garlands in the Royal Navy) which consisted of longitudinal wooden planks with holes bored into them, into which round shot (cannon balls) were inserted for ready use by the gun crew. These shot racks or garlands are discussed in: Longridge, C. Nepean. The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships. (Annapolis MD: Naval Institute Press, 1981): 64. A top view of shot garlands on the upper deck of a ship-of-the-line is depicted in The Visual Dictionary of Ships and Sailing. New York: Dorling Kindersley, 1991): 17.


That should do for starters ... if he still doesn't believe you, get back to me

cheers Ill send that little lot to him Ill keep you posted

[Whealie]

Have to say that the last time I visited the Victory in Portsmouth (that's Lord Nelson's ship for you ignorant lot) they had the balls piled in a pyramid and told that story as Gospel.

You're going to tell me there's no such thing as Father Christmas next

[alpslapper]

Have to say that the last time I visited the Victory in Portsmouth (that's Lord Nelson's ship for you ignorant lot) they had the balls piled in a pyramid and told that story as Gospel.

You're going to tell me there's no such thing as Father Christmas next

Nope, a load of old balls I'm afraid. As for Father Christmas, well of course he exists, who else could be leaving dirty great big ash covered bootprints all over me floor every year...... oh wait, .......

[Whealie]

As for Father Christmas, well of course he exists

Phew! Because one of the leprechauns I met in Ireland on Saturday said he'd put a good word in for me with a lady elf he'd pulled in a bar on Friday night who insisted she was on of Santa's helpers.

[Whealie]

Are we off topic yet? What was the topic again?

Was it balls or myths? I think we're all right though, because I have been talking both.

[StumpyFingers]

Are we off topic yet? What was the topic again?

Was it balls or myths? I think we're all right though, because I have been talking both.

No change there then.

[Snaphappy]

so where do we get the saying about balls getting sweated off