Should pedigrees be banned?

[Snaphappy]

As long as there are ignorant pillocks about that want something for nothing there will be fat rats waiting to exploit them.
The main problem lays with the greedy b'stards that run puppy farms to supply dogs to suit trends,

The kennel club know of the problems associated with differing breeds, they have standards which for every breeding bitch or stud are awarded points. I can bore you with a great long list of numbers that belong to any particular dog that is chipped and DNA'd for genetic problems. Its then down to the breeder to select the best partner to breed from its called canine husbandry.
We show our dogs and our eldest was too small (in my belief) to stud, so we never registered him. Our pup is coming along nicely and we will be showing him more and we will be registering him for stud.
Regardless of pedigree breed or mongrel if you dont know what your doing with a living thing stick to inanimate objects.
rant over

[Warthog]

But why restrict breeds or a type of dog?

Perhaps because they are the ones that will suffer?

What needs restricting is the archaic show rules that specify a score for a small head or a bulging eyes..

If you took any KCS and bred it with any other KCS you would 99% of the time get a healthy KCS so why prohibit that. Instead breeders are breeding small headed KCS's with another small headed KCS which means problems for the offspring all because the rule book says that small headed KCS's score more points in the shows..

The Kennel club themselves says that they don't promote small headed KCS but their scoring system ensures that the way breeders go..

If you remove the breeds then all they'll do is start turning this selective breeding towards other dogs and in the end they'll become the new pedigree.. (how do you think all the pedigrees came about???)

I am quite aware of how pedigrees arose: for the most part it had nothing to do with shows or appearances: they were bred for a tendency or talent: Hunting dogs, Guard-dogs, war-dogs, sheep-dogs, lap dogs.
My point, in my first post, was that these motives, by and large, are no longer needed, so why promote them.

In your case of a KCS how do you know that 99% of the resulting pups would be healthy?

Healthy compared to what?
Other KCSs? Mongrels? Wolves? It's all relative.

The fact is breeding is now a practice whereby you produce animals in the full knowldge that they will be at a greater, unnecessary risk of various weaknesses, diseases or syndromes.

It has taken a long time to reach this stage and it will take a while to rectify, but I can see no reason not to start, if the only motive not to is, as you say, bulging eyes and small heads...

[RickSkye]

Total dog novice here but, supply and demand, if people realise haw bad it is, don't buy the dogs and there will be no demand.

Is that too simplistic?

Also, its cats as well. I knew someone with a cat that looked like it hit a wall head on, its breathing was constantly noisy, like it was struggling, its coat was so long it kept getting knotted, Not pleasant at all.

[StumpyFingers]

I had a golden Retriever which due to a mistake on my part breed with a mongrel.
The pups ended up all different, one was the size of an Irish wolfhound, one looked like a black and tan Labrador and the others a mix of the two including one that looked like a large fur ball.

[Lumiya]

In your case of a KCS how do you know that 99% of the resulting pups would be healthy?

Healthy compared to what?
Other KCSs? Mongrels? Wolves? It's all relative.

The fact is breeding is now a practice whereby you produce animals in the full knowldge that they will be at a greater, unnecessary risk of various weaknesses, diseases or syndromes.

It has taken a long time to reach this stage and it will take a while to rectify, but I can see no reason not to start, if the only motive not to is, as you say, bulging eyes and small heads...

You're whitewashing the whole practice of breeding with the actions of those who purposely breed for looks disregarding the health risks. Most breeders do not do that as most breeders do not show, most pedigree dog owners do not show either..

Your generalising way to much the cause and effect argument.... and as such there's not much point in arguing a point with you

[GPS]

Don't get me wrong I think crufts etc should be banned for reasons like promoting genetic selection i.e. pedigrees, why shouldn't mongrels be allowed they are dogs after all.
But as for banning Pedigrees, I don't agree,
would you suggest that a couple who've been trying for a child for years, become pregnant only to find their child will be blind, diabetic or unable to walk would you then insist that their child must be terminated? I dont think you would.
By all means ban Crufts and the competitions that promote this idea of selection and the breeds will sort themselves out when people aren't concerned with their dogs pedigree. I find cross breeds are more interesting, but not to the point of exclusion of all others.
All dogs are equal Big or Small, working dogs or lap dogs, all should be loved and cared for.

[Warthog]

Your generalising way to much the cause and effect argument.... and as such there's not much point in arguing a point with you

That is pretty weak.

1) feel free to enlighten me.
2) The ENORMOUS list of predispositions that I post a link to earlier didn't crop up by them selves. They are fact, they exist. This is the present situation.

Existing practices, some to a greater and some to a lesser degree, have contributed to it.
Careless breeders will make it worse faster, but careful ones are still confined to choosing mates from that breed and so the gene pool is inevitably still going to get smaller and smaller...

And all I'm asking is what should we do about it.
Some have said: nothing. Leave as is. I disagree.

As I suggested earlier I think it is high time to start introducing external DNA from other breeds etc to richen up the pool at regular intervals. For those breed who already suffer unecessarily and to avoid others reaching that stage.

As far as pedigrees are concerned, I've made my mind up: I'd love a flat-coated retriever, but if I ever get another dog, it'll be a rescue dog and a cross or mongrel.

You can take it or leave it.

[Warthog]

Don't get me wrong I think crufts etc should be banned for reasons like promoting genetic selection i.e. pedigrees, why shouldn't mongrels be allowed they are dogs after all.
But as for banning Pedigrees, I don't agree,
would you suggest that a couple who've been trying for a child for years, become pregnant only to find their child will be blind, diabetic or unable to walk would you then insist that their child must be terminated? I dont think you would.

I didn't suggest harming any dogs at all. On the contrary. It's the harm they experience that upsets me.

By all means ban Crufts and the competitions that promote this idea of selection and the breeds will sort themselves out when people aren't concerned with their dogs pedigree. I find cross breeds are more interesting, but not to the point of exclusion of all others.
All dogs are equal Big or Small, working dogs or lap dogs, all should be loved and cared for.

I fully agree that all dogs should be taken in to be cared for not ill-treated and I'm certainly not suggesting that people who buy pedigrees are somehow abusive.

What I am suggesting and what I think needs to happen now is that these pedigrees should have strength bred into their lines, rather than weakness. That means dogs from other gene pools.

The down side is that some breeds may no longer be as homogenous as they are now, but they'll be the better for it.

[StumpyFingers]

As the genome has been mapped, maybe it will soon be possible to breed pedigrees with the current weaknesses removed with genetic manipulation.

[YEN_POWELL]

I grew up with a continual stream of German Shepherds, as my dad was an RAF police dog handler and never liked to be without one, even after leaving the RAF and them having no planes to widdle up or erks to chase.

They all had a pedigree, I still remember seeing the same name in a few different places on one of their family trees, that can't be good for health can it?(Ludwig of Charavane or something like that).

I remember they all had problems with their back legs when they got older, seemed to be a common theme.