No filings but chips in the engine ^ ^



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Thread: No filings but chips in the engine ^ ^

  1. #1
    Hondada is offline Member
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    No filings but chips in the engine ^ ^

    Hi there,
    I'm a French guy and this is my first post here (and also first time opening a Domi engine) because I wanted to change the cam chain for a friend's Domi and one screw maintening the chain tensioner broke while trying to take it off

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    I've tried all the ways to take it off from the crankcase, even welding a nut on it with flame or arc, with no chances. And after that it became too hard to drill...

    So I had to open the engine. After taking head, barrel and piston off, I first saw colours on the crank, just like if it had a real hot experience once. But finally thougt it was normal because heated at the factory for the mounting of the crank pin. First question, is it really normal?

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    Then I found some chips in the crankcase

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    BTW, is the color of the conrod small end normal?


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    So I decided to turn the engine upside down, and guess what I've got? Other chips...

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    The strange thing is when I look inside the crankcase, I can't see where they come from.

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    Just to say they are non magnetic chips and piston is in good shape. And the conrod big end has a natural lateral play, but no vertical one.

    Any idea of where they could come from? Does this already happened to somebody?

    Thanks for your help.
    Last edited by Hondada; 10-01-17 at 10:13 AM.

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    Bounder is offline Senior Member
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    Re: No filings but chips in the engine ^ ^

    What does the head look like?
    Any sign of the valve seats dropping or moving?

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    Hondada is offline Member
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    Re: No filings but chips in the engine ^ ^

    Didn't take the valves off yet, but for me it's hard to believe that this size of chips could go threw the rings. And they are non magnetic chips.

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    Mototed is offline Senior Member
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    Re: No filings but chips in the engine ^ ^

    The blueing is normal. Every one ive seen has this colour. And ive rebuilt a lot of these. It's from the process of inserting the crankpin. It has to be heated and the pin is frozen.

    The chips are non-metalic so they are aluminium ???

    Are you 100% sure they are metal ? Ive seen gaskets go so hard they seem like metal.

    Pull out the engine filters and check them also. Cut open the oil filter and check the sump screen also.



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    Last edited by Mototed; 10-01-17 at 10:33 AM.

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    Hondada is offline Member
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    Re: No filings but chips in the engine ^ ^

    Thanks for confirming the blueing.

    Rolling the chips under my fingers let me think they are strong enough to be 100% metallic, I believe I could cut my finger with one of them.

    Unfortunately the oil filter was thrown away and when I checked the sump screen, I don't remember seeing metal chips in it.

    Here are other photos that may help us:


    Piston, looks less carbonized than head

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    Small end conrod, looks like it was too hot once in his life, no?

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    thetimkirby is offline Senior Member
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    Re: No filings but chips in the engine ^ ^

    Those chips look like milling swarf, so it's reasonable that they are aluminium. Is there any sign of work having been done on the casings, like welding and machining? I'd be very surprised if they were from the original assembly.

    Having said that, I got a replacement (non-OE) car oil filter from the local factors, and by chance looked down the central hole before fitting it. I saw similar-looking debris, and when I hooked it out, found steel chips from where they had machined the threaded hole. There was nearly a teaspoon full of it. Took it back to the shop, checked the remaining stock, they were all like it. Can only guess what wreckage it would have caused.

    The small end looks a bit scored on yours. Can you feel the grooves with your fingernail? Not sure about the orange colour; first thought was just burnt oil, but it does look very orange.

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    Mototed is offline Senior Member
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    Re: No filings but chips in the engine ^ ^

    I too noticed the grooves on the chips. They look like they're from a stripped thread, drilling or helicoil. Look for repaired threads. A careless repairs could have let all the swarf chips fall into the motor. Check the crank for rod vertical rod knock while you're in there.

    Find me on Facebook: MotoTed & MotoRevive.

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    Hondada is offline Member
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    Re: No filings but chips in the engine ^ ^

    Quote Originally Posted by thetimkirby View Post
    Those chips look like milling swarf, so it's reasonable that they are aluminium. Is there any sign of work having been done on the casings, like welding and machining? I'd be very surprised if they were from the original assembly.
    At first look, didn't see anything like welding or machining. Because they look like milling swarf, I tought they came from the gearbox with a layshaft milling case because of a worn spacer washer, but didnt see anything on cases in the gearbox side.

    Quote Originally Posted by thetimkirby View Post

    The small end looks a bit scored on yours. Can you feel the grooves with your fingernail? Not sure about the orange colour; first thought was just burnt oil, but it does look very orange.
    Well my fingers are little too big to go there, but with a tiny screw driver I can feel a groove on some places. Should it be changed before rebuilding or could it be let like that for a lubricant groove? Anybody tried?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mototed View Post
    I too noticed the grooves on the chips. They look like they're from a stripped thread, drilling or helicoil. Look for repaired threads. A careless repairs could have let all the swarf chips fall into the motor. Check the crank for rod vertical rod knock while you're in there.
    I'll have another look in the LH case, the RH one is in a mechanic school to be repaired by, don't know how you call it in English, EDM perhaps?

    Sorry but my poor English doesn't help me to understand "rod vertical rod knock ". What I can feel is there is some natural lateral play on the big eng end of the rod when you move it horizontally in the crank, but vertically there is no play.

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    Mototed is offline Senior Member
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    Re: No filings but chips in the engine ^ ^

    Rod knock is vertical movement in the rod. Side way movement is normal. Yours seems okay.

    Well, without splitting your crank cases you can never be sure. If you bother to do that depends on how worried you are.

    Considering you already have the barrel off, its not too much work. You will need gaskets and sealant to re-assemble thought.

    If you're 100% sure there are no repairs to threads (head and barrel bolts are typical), then possible ideas are a collapsed main shaft or balancer bearing (almost unheard of), gearbox gear dogs or bearings or maybe the water pump internals. But I would expect if these items were damaged, you would already know from riding it !!





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    Last edited by Mototed; 12-01-17 at 09:50 AM.

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    Hondada is offline Member
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    Re: No filings but chips in the engine ^ ^

    Quote Originally Posted by Mototed View Post
    Rod knock is vertical movement in the rod. Side way movement is normal. Yours seems okay.
    Yes to me it seems okay too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mototed View Post

    Well, without splitting your crank cases you can never be sure. If you bother to do that depends on how worried you are.

    Considering you already have the barrel off, its not too much work. You will need gaskets and sealant to re-assemble thought.
    Please have a look at the 7th and 8th photos, cases are splitted

    Quote Originally Posted by Mototed View Post


    maybe the water pump internals.
    Do you have water pump on Dommies in the US? Here in Europe they are all air cooled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mototed View Post

    But I would expect if these items were damaged, you would already know from riding it !!
    It's a friend bike who received it as a gift from another friend, he never rode it, neither did I.
    Last edited by Hondada; 12-01-17 at 01:12 PM.

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