Insurance questions.....

[Whealie]

My name is Phil and I've worked for Adrian Flux Insurance Services for over 13 years now.

If any of you Lads or Lasses on here have any general insurance queries, I'll be more than happy to try and help.

Here's the questions the xrv forum compiled. Don't worry if you can't answer them, you'd be the third broker to fail to do so.

A lot of riders heavily customise their bike including building their own accessories (including aluminium fabrication and welding, plastic moulding and so on). These have taken ages to design and build. Can they be insured?

At present we say the bike is worth a figure, say £3,000. The insurer does not challenge that valuation and sets a premium based on that price. When we come to claim the insurer then says it is only worth £2,000. Can we buy insurance for an agreed value for the bike?

Does cover include custom paint jobs?

Do policies cover for greenlaning (legal by-ways)? Do they extend to cover us for more extreme off-roading?

As one person said: “I want the same cover in any country I say I am visiting - don't see why it is more of a risk when I am riding in Morocco or Turkey or USA or wherever than riding in UK and Europe. In fact its probably less risk because I will be being double careful with bike security and riding style.” So: What cover exists within the EU and what about beyond the EU? What about riding in Africa? Can we buy the same cover abroad as we have at home?

On this issue, German and Dutch bikers buy a policy and get a green card immediately, covering them in all east European states. Why can’t we buy something similar?

Can we buy travel insurance to cover us riding the bike? Can we buy EU, European (including non-EU) and worldwide travel cover? Does this cover include off-road riding?

Can we buy European breakdown cover that covers non-EU countries? Can we extend this to Africa or the rest of the world? Will this cover off-road riding?

How easy is it to buy back write-offs and get the rebuilt project insured again?

Why can we not insure ourselves to ride someone else’s bike? For example (as one person asked) Why can't I insure a bike not registered in my name, eg in my son's name?

Another genuine example: Insurance in garage at home at night - ebike say something stupid like not insured for theft within 1/2 mile of home after 10.00pm if not in the garage. Why? For my son on his moped I suspect most evenings his bike's not insured for theft as he is mostly at friends houses or just zooming about town and doing what 16-year olds do. Can this normal usage be covered or do all garage clauses exclude visits to neighbours?

How much discount do I actually get for a security device? What if I have not used the additional security (just popped in to a shop, for example)? I cannot use the additional security in the garage as the bike needs to be moved by other garage users (family members) – is that a problem?

Will the premium rise if I say there is no additional security?

How much reduction in premium per £x of voluntary excess should I expect?

If a rider overloads a bike with heavy luggage (and Ewan Macgregor and Charlie Boorman did in The Long Way Round) can an insurer avoid paying out for accidents or damage caused?

Are the following accessories covered:
Sat Nav (GPS)
Autocom/Starcom intercom systems
Power sockets
Extra riding/fog/brake lights
Luggage racks
Fitted luggage
The contents of fitted luggage
Exhaust heat guards
Customised chain guards


There is a lot of confusion over the difference between modifications, accessories and performance upgrades. What's the difference, how do we know what to report and when?
What changes the insurance premium (and do all insurers follow the same rules)?
Do these make a difference (or do certain combinations of them make a difference)?:
Changing sprockets
Changing exhaust
Removing the baffles from an exhaust
Changing air filter
Dynojetting
Screens or front fairings that are not see-through.
Different tyres
Replacement handlebars
Handlebar risers
Barkbusters
Crash bars (surely these should actually lead to a reduction in premium as they will save the fairing?)
Replacement shocks
Replacement forks
Raised/lowered suspension/seat height
Larger/smaller fuel tank

[Bikesure]

Having received a number of questions that I presume are often asked, I hope to be able to answer a few of them now.

Please note that terms and conditions vary greatly between the insurers that we arrange policies for and so some of the answers below will refer to some insurers and not others. There will not necessarily be a single insurer that all of the below refers to. I would recommend PMing me for a quotation to be sure of the acceptability of a particular risk. Here goes:


A lot of riders heavily customise their bike including building their own accessories (including aluminium fabrication and welding, plastic moulding and so on). These have taken ages to design and build. Can they be insured?
If the work is carried out by a specialist than it is usually taken into account. If for example they do a lot of work themselves and it is heavily modified, we will need to see photos before offering cover, but under normal circumstances this not a problem.

At present we say the bike is worth a figure, say £3,000. The insurer does not challenge that valuation and sets a premium based on that price. When we come to claim the insurer then says it is only worth £2,000. Can we buy insurance for an agreed value for the bike?
Yes. We can offer an agreed value for almost any motorcycle. This is usually subject to the client completing an agreed value form that is signed and dated by a specialist dealer, 3 colour photos and a charge of £10. These forms are sent out by ourselves and each case is looked at separately in-house by our agreed value team who confirm if the valuation is successful or not.

Does cover include custom paint jobs?
If an agreed value policy is agreed than yes, we can offer cover for the paint job on a like for like basis. If the risk is placed with a normal insurer (a market value policy) than the majority of companies will only cover the bike for standard replacement parts, for example no cover for modifications / paint work.

Do policies cover for green-laning (legal by-ways)? Do they extend to cover us for more extreme off-roading?
Road cover is generally classed as any place the public has access to. Green-laning is generally covered as long as there is public access.

As one person said: "I want the same cover in any country I say I am visiting - don't see why it is more of a risk when I am riding in Morocco or Turkey or USA or wherever than riding in UK and Europe. In fact its probably less risk because I will be being double careful with bike security and riding style." So: What cover exists within the EU and what about beyond the EU? What about riding in Africa? Can we buy the same cover abroad as we have at home?
The European cover that we offer on all of our policies will always match the customer’s cover in the UK. For example, if you are fully comprehensive on your policy, you will be fully comprehensive in the EU country that you visit. Even if you are third party only, you always have the minimum road cover needed by the EU country you visit. The cover does not extend to other countries or continents.

On this issue, German and Dutch bikers buy a policy and get a green card immediately, covering them in all east European states. Why can't we buy something similar?
As a broker, we offer the best policy available from the insurers available to us. Most companies offer a minimum of 30-90 days EU cover, although one insurance company offers 365 days a year. Your policy documents act as a green card.

Can we buy travel insurance to cover us riding the bike? Can we buy EU, European (including non-EU) and worldwide travel cover? Does this cover include off-road riding?
We offer travel insurance through our parent company Adrian Flux. It provides up to £25,000 personal accident cover as standard, even if riding a hired motorcycle.

Can we buy European breakdown cover that covers non-EU countries? Can we extend this to Africa or the rest of the world? Will this cover off-road riding?
The EU breakdown cover that we offer is purely subject to the countries mentioned in the booklet. These are Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Germany, Gibraltar, Greece, Rep of Ireland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Slovak, Slovenia, Spain (inc Balearics), Sweden and Switzerland. We have had a number of requests for other countries including Africa but unfortunately the breakdown provider is unable to cover other countries. The wording in respect of the breakdown cover and off-road use is "This insurance does not cover any request for service if the vehicle is off road or cannot be reached due to mud, sand or flood"

How easy is it to buy back write-offs and get the rebuilt project insured again?
There should be no problem purchasing the salvage, subject to its condition. However, you must make us aware of your intentions as soon as possible to avoid the insurance company carrying out their normal procedures of dealing with salvage. We do re-insure written-off bikes but we always need to be made aware of the reason for the bike being written-off and the category it was given.

Why can we not insure ourselves to ride someone else's bike? For example (as one person asked) Why can't I insure a bike not registered in my name, eg in my son's name?
It is not possible for a parent to insure their offspring’s bike with them also on the policy. Often an insurance companies will not to arrange a policy in one persons name if the bike is own by another person due to a potential conflict of interest. If there were a total loss payment, it would be made to the policyholder although the bike was owned by another person, who suffered the loss.

Another genuine example: Insurance in garage at home at night - ebike say something stupid like not insured for theft within 1/2 mile of home after 10.00pm if not in the garage. Why? For my son on his moped I suspect most evenings his bike's not insured for theft as he is mostly at friends houses or just zooming about town and doing what 16-year olds do. Can this normal usage be covered or do all garage clauses exclude visits to neighbours?
Over 60% of motorcycles that are stolen in the UK are from the home address. Garage clauses differ from company to company. If I client advises us that they store their bike in a garage at home than we reward this with a discount.

Different garage clauses include:
· When the vehicle is at the home address and between 10pm and 6am, it must to be garaged.
· If the vehicle is within a 500-metre radius of the home address and left unattended, it must be garaged.
· If the vehicle is stolen from the home address and not garaged at the time, than the excess will be doubled.

How much discount do I actually get for a security device? What if I have not used the additional security (just popped in to a shop, for example)? I cannot use the additional security in the garage as the bike needs to be moved by other garage users (family members) - is that a problem? Will the premium rise if I say there is no additional security?
Security discounts are usually given in stages. Thatcham category 1 is approximately 15%, a tracker / Thatcham category 2 / Thatcham lock is approximately 10% and tagging devices are approximately 5%. If your policy is subject to a form of security being in force when the bike is not in use and this is not the case, the insurer will consider this if dealing with a relevant claim. The worse case scenario is that they may refer to pay a claim if the policyholder did not satisfy the conditions of the policy.

How much reduction in premium per £x of voluntary excess should I expect?
The majority of our policies are on specialist schemes with set excesses depending on the risk, for example the bike grouping and age of riders. These do not allow for an increase in the excess in exchange for a lower premium.

If a rider overloads a bike with heavy luggage (and Ewan Macgregor and Charlie Boorman did in The Long Way Round) can an insurer avoid paying out for accidents or damage caused?
This would depend on the insurer and whether they felt the bike was being used inappropriately, for example beyond the recommendations of the manufacturer.

Are the following accessories covered:
(Under normal circumstances, not on a market value policy, we can however cover the following with one of our specialist insurers)

Sat Nav (GPS) No
Autocom/Starcom intercom systems No
Power sockets No
Extra riding/fog/brake lights Yes
Luggage racks Yes
Fitted luggage Yes
The contents of fitted luggage No
Exhaust heat guards Yes
Customised chain guards Yes

There is a lot of confusion over the difference between modifications, accessories and performance upgrades. What's the difference, how do we know what to report and when?
We strongly recommend contacting us and discussing everything fitted to the bike and any alterations that may be made in the future. In most cases there is little to no increase in premium unless the modifications have greatly increased the performance figures for the bike.

What changes the insurance premium (and do all insurers follow the same rules)?
Under normal circumstances cosmetic and non-performance enhancing modifications / accessories will not increase the premiums. Performance-enhancing modifications may increase the premiums. Exhaust systems, air-filters and slip-ons do not usually result in an increase in premium, whereas a Dyno-jet stage 2 and onwards would result in an increase. Nitros, hyper and super chargers result in the greatest increases in premiums.

Do these make a difference (or do certain combinations of them make a difference)?:
(If there is a combination of the below than we would asses the complete bike)
Under normal circumstances the likely outcome would be:

Changing sprockets No
Changing exhaust Depends on any increase in performance
Removing the baffles from an exhaust The exhaust has to be road legal.
Changing air filter No
Dynojetting Stage 2 or above will usually result in an increased premium.
Screens or front fairings that are not see-through No
Different tyres No
Replacement handlebars No
Handlebar risers No
Barkbusters No
Crash bars (surely these should actually lead to a reduction in premium as they will save the fairing?) No
Replacement shocks No
Replacement forks This would have to be referred to the underwriter
Raised/lowered suspension/seat height This would have to be referred to the underwriter
Larger/smaller fuel tank This would have to be referred to the underwriter

[digitalcaptive]

Thats a pretty impressive come back

[Bikesure]

Thats a pretty impressive come back

Cheers. Sorry about the dealy in getting back to you all.

Don't forget, if you need anything just PM me.

Phil

[Whealie]

Thanks Phil.

Some of the answers inevitably raise more questions, but I'll have a think through and get back to you.

[Bikesure]

Thanks Phil.

Some of the answers inevitably raise more questions, but I'll have a think through and get back to you.

No worries.

[Whealie]

A few follow-up questions:

On valuations, let’s say you take one of my 1991 Africa Twins (750cc), my postcode is SE13 7UB, I have had a full licence for about 12 years and I have four years’ NCD, three points for speeding, I have had a car claim in the past year (on my parent’s policy). Bike is garaged in a wooden-framed metal garage behind a separate locked gate in a brick wall. If I say the bike is worth £1,000 what is the premium. If I say the bike is worth £3,000 would the premium be different? Can an insurer charge a higher premium for a higher valuation and still try to pay out the lower value at the claim?

What if we are off-road but not on legal byway? I don’t mean riding illegally, I mean on a farmer’s field with permission, on a motocross track etc? Are these circumstances covered? If not on a standard policy, can they be added?

Your policies only cover EU and closely related countries. If we plan to travel to non-EU countries, such as Albania, Bosnia, Croatia, Macedonia, where can we buy bike insurance that will cover us?

Does your travel insurance cover business travel? Can you buy annual policies, for whole families, including children travelling independent of their parents (such as with grandparents)? Can members of the family be on different holidays at the same time?

It is possible to buy car insurance by the day to drive someone else’s car. Why can this not be extended to bikes? If I want to ride someone else’s, or I am happy to lend my bike to someone else, why cannot the rider buy the insurance? If someone has a personal social and domestic usage policy but will lend me their bike for my business trip, why can’t I cover myself for the business usage? Why can I not extend my own cover to their bike?

Different garage clauses include:
· When the vehicle is at the home address and between 10pm and 6am, it must to be garaged.
· If the vehicle is within a 500-metre radius of the home address and left unattended, it must be garaged.
· If the vehicle is stolen from the home address and not garaged at the time, than the excess will be doubled.

They are hugely different clauses, Presumably you have to warn anyone taking out a policy that these exclusions apply? That middle one would, in theory, mean that if I go home with the shopping I have to put the bike into the garage before taking the shopping inside, otherwise I would be leaving the bike unattended outside while I put the shopping away. Somehow I doubt that clause would stand up to an Ombudsman appeal.

So my GPS and Starcom units, plus the power sockets that feed them, would not be covered if my bike caught fire and the whole lot was burnt? That is a significant omission that I doubt any of us have had explained before. How do we make sure they are covered?

[Alba]

Some good clarity there bikesure

[Yeti]

wow! don't often see pro-active these days!

[HUDDERS]

Nice one Bikesure