ABS - do you agree with it?

[winxp-master]

"Shouldn't get yourself in that position"? Do you really think that he, or anyone else riding a bike can afford to be so smug? The next time a car pulls out on you remember to blame yourself for putting yourself in "that position"! We don't always put ourselves in situations but life can dictate them to us.

Your instructor, I regret to say, was a moron.

Agree.

[Lord Stig]

It makes sense to keep their customers alive to buy another bike.

Genauso!

My view on this is probably irrelevant because I've never ridden a bike with ABS. However, I have driven cars with it and, except on snow where locked wheels often slow you faster, ABS is certainly a step forward. I've controlled rear, front and all-wheel lock ups on various bikes in the past, but I wouldn't be arrogant enough to think I could do that every time.

My concern would be that a new rider who has never learned to deal with locked wheels will never gain that skill. Of course you could argue you'd never need it if you always have ABS, and sometime in the future every bike will very likely have it. After all, double de-clutching used to be taught for cars, but it's a skill we don't need now.

That said, ABS is a complex system even on a bike, and it can and does break down. While (so I've heard) certain bikes cannot even be made to run in the event of a malfuction in the ABS circuit, if you were (un)fortunate enough to be riding a bike that lets you carry on with just a fault indicator showing, you could be in trouble when you have to stop in a panic if you haven't learned that skill. I wonder how older ABS systems (e.g., 10 or 20 year old BMWs) have held up over time? Anyone any experience of this out there?

So, ABS - great so long as it works. When it doesn't, the back up computer in the the rider had better be up to scratch.

[Rubberchicken]

That's the beauty of ABS: it works on all road surfaces, wet, damp, gravely, icy...

That remains to be seen, especially the latter...

I believe on BMW's GS range you can turn ABS off for off-road use.

...Because features like this didn't get added to get rid of some some parts in the warehouse.

As somebody upstairs already mentioned, it's a nice safety net as long as you ride as if it isn't there. Start relying on it and it'll bite your head off one day. (If only because a loaner bike might not have it.)

And all that depends on the abs system as well. There have been reports about certain (older?) abs systems releasing the front brake whenever the rear locks up, which might make sense in the lab but leaves pucker marks in seats in real life if you're braking properly with both front and rear, say on the little washboardy bit in front of traffic lights. Getting the abs to think the rear locks up isn't that hard, apparently.

I've never had a bike with abs, so it's all theory here... I wouldn't mind having it, as long as there's no such silly linking between rear and front. Ditto for all the linked brake nonsense that applies all the brakes from either input. Gerrroff.

[Snaphappy]

Ditto for all the linked brake nonsense that applies all the brakes from either input. Gerrroff.

Dont knock it till you've tried it, it may well be a load a Shiite off road (never tried) but on the heavy Vara they work a treat

[Rubberchicken]

I'm sure it'll be fine for most normal road conditions, that's why they put it on.

What bothers me about it is that it takes control away. I cannot choose to apply just the rear brake anymore, or just the front, both of which I do a lot. That combined with the linked ABS I described above would make me very wary about riding a bike equipped with those systems.

That won't go for all bikes as they'll have different setups by different manufacturers, but how do I know that beforehand? How do I know the manufacturer isn't trying to be clever with ever more complex interlocking systems that have unknown failure modes and/or unwise input combinations?

It's a matter of trust, then. I don't trust that stuff, or more to the point, I don't trust the manufacturers to get it right without bugs, and it's all in a black box so I can't fully figure out for myself what goes on in there.

Fortunately I could always pull the entire sheite off and fit straight brake lines if I don't like it. It'll save a ton of weight, too.

[Boris]

There have been reports about certain (older?) abs systems releasing the front brake whenever the rear locks up, which might make sense in the lab but leaves pucker marks in seats in real life if you're braking properly with both front and rear, say on the little washboardy bit in front of traffic lights. Getting the abs to think the rear locks up isn't that hard, apparently.

I'm just back from a test ride on a 2010 BMW GSA1200 and I can confirm the BMW ABS does this. It's a bit odd at first but by automatically releasing the front brake (a little) it does stop the rear wheel lifting. You know it's doing it and it feels strange but it doesn't feel if it's releasing the front brake completely.

The other comparison to the Varadero is how easily the rear abs cuts in on the beemer. Just stopping a bit sharpish had the rear brake pedal pulsing as the ABS kicked in. This could be down to tyres though.

In my view and based only on a couple of hours and a hundred miles the Honda ABS is better

[Wigan Chris]

that's because I very rarely use it, even rarer in anger.

i interpret this in relation to my own riding as "i prefer to use engine breaking to slow, so rarely use the front, and when i do use the front its rarely in anger... ie an emergency stop"

[winxp-master]

Ive only ever had to do one emergency stop and that was on the way to the second welsh invasion to stop me hitting a van head on,i dont have ABS on the strom and i just pulled the front brake as hard as i could whilst also dabbing the back. I didnt have time to think about the front wheel locking up and was lucky that it was a dry road, ABS in this situation would be better as i just squeezed the brake hard as i was in a panic.

I also learnt how fast the bike could stop when it had too, oh yeah, and that you should always take extra underwear

[jarl]

i interpret this in relation to my own riding as "i prefer to use engine breaking to slow, so rarely use the front, and when i do use the front its rarely in anger... ie an emergency stop"

I use the rear brake almost exclusively. Most the front brake work I do is at low speed (<10mph), I've used the front brake 3 times at high speed in the last few weeks- it's there if I need more braking power (well, half the lever is in my top box at the moment after I surfed into a kerb this morning but let's not go there ) but I find with a bit of forward planning I can get by with the rear for most my riding.

Also, IMO in a panic situation it's far easier to add in the front brake to get more stopping power than it is to add in the rear brake to get more stopping power, what with the weight transfer.

[Davech42]

I dont have ABS and chose not to have ABS. Its complicated and not needed. as a safety featurs its marginal better to pay the money and learn to brake like a pro. as the bike gets older and gremlins set in ABS is just something else to go wrong. Adding "safety features" to things just allows people not to think for themselves. I am a great believer in the risk compensation theory and see it every time at the side of the road in thge first signs of frost where cagers over cook corners because of poor training and an over fed sense that their car can do anything. I believe in two things i know i can trust every time experience and training nough said