Overtaking

[DaveS]

I'm currently doing my IAM Skill for life course.
I'm due my last observed ride, before my cross check and my test.

I'm concerned about many things, but overtaking is worrying me.
I've read the theory and those that have ridden with me will know that I don't hang around and I can overtake at the drop of a hat, however the blue book talks about pulling out without accelerating and then nailing it (my words not theirs! ). I tend to accelerate straight away and do that whilst pulling out. I understand that this is a common mistake and could be a fail.
I don't hold that this could cause a problem with grip unless maybe you're on something really powerful.
I find at the moment it feels really wooden and for me seems to slow me down whilst I tip the bike out and then nail it.
So what am I doing wrong? Any tips?

[Cie]

Dave, I struggled with overtakes too.

The IAM taught me one technique, which is the one in Roadcraft, and that's what they'll want to see demonstrated. Of course, depending when you do your test, you may not actually get a chance to demonstrate it at all!

Stick with it, it's a great technique for seeing round bends, which is typically when I use it, in other words, on a long left hander, pull right out to the right hand side of the road, where visibility and safety allow you to. That way you can see as far as possible, and when you know there's enough road for your overtake, hit the indicator and the gas, and away you go.

More on the indicator... IAM didn't want me to use them at all as they only show that the bulb works, but RoSPA are wanting me, in this instance, not to use it when I pull out, but only when I'm going to overtake.

Indicators are a huge debate on their own.

[matthelliwell]

Originally Posted by DaveS

I'm currently doing my IAM Skill for life course.
I'm due my last observed ride, before my cross check and my test.

I'm concerned about many things, but overtaking is worrying me.
I've read the theory and those that have ridden with me will know that I don't hang around and I can overtake at the drop of a hat, however the blue book talks about pulling out without accelerating and then nailing it (my words not theirs! ). I tend to accelerate straight away and do that whilst pulling out. I understand that this is a common mistake and could be a fail.
I don't hold that this could cause a problem with grip unless maybe you're on something really powerful.
I find at the moment it feels really wooden and for me seems to slow me down whilst I tip the bike out and then nail it.
So what am I doing wrong? Any tips?

I was taught the pull-out-then-nail-it method of overtaking as well. You are right that it does slow you down. OTOH, I have pull out then had to pull back in sharpish due to an unseen hazard. I would've had difficulty getting back behind the car if I had accelerated before pulling out so I do tend to stick to that technique even if it means missing a few overtakes.

(Last time, the unseen hazard was a police car that was coming towards me and deciding to put on it's sirens and overtake just after I pulled out. I ask you, some drivers observation skills)

[davsato]

i always thought the main thing was getting away with it in one piece without causing any fuss to all involved.
i dont think its right to have a set down "method" because there are so many variables, how far can you see ahead? how fast is your overtakee going, how big a gap will you need? can you do it leisurely or is there a bend 1/4 mile ahead that someone could fly round and you'll be on his side of the road converging at maybe 160mph? is there a set of double white lines coming up or a speed limit change?

[Cie]

This technique is the one that's in

Roadcraft

Roadcraft

and that's why the IAM want to see it demonstrated. It is, of course, the technique to use in the worst case scenario. ie you've ended up stuck behind/in a queue of traffic, and it's the safest way to get past.

One little phrase that was used with me was, imagine you're a plane, you wouldn't take off if you didn't know where to land. In other words, don't pull out if you're not sure where you're going to pull in.

From this basic technique you can learn/develop your uphill, downhill, rolling, bend etc overtakes.

[snapper]

Seems to be a bit of variation in the IAM course region to region, I certainly wasn't discouraged to use indicators.

Don't worry about the test too much, I found it very relaxed, I felt loads happier after my mock/cross check. The examiner here uses the same route every time so it was good to know the full format before hand.

Good luck with it!

[Austin]

hmmm, good food for thought, when I was out on Monday I was thinking about this. What I found was that nearly all the time I had a good view of the road ahead of the vehicles I was about to overtake by looking over (mostly), round or even through the car in front. This meant every overtake manoevure started with acceleration while I was still on the Left hand side of the road as I was confident both about what was ahead and where I would land. I suppose the main risk in this approach is that the vehicle in front also starts an overtake as you are accelerating up to them.The only time I felt like I needed a "look then nail it" approach was behind something I couldn't see over or around (buses/vans/lorries).But, ignore me as I have done no advanced training and am probably full of awful bad habits and poor technique.

[z-weiser]

i haven't done any advanced training - that is to come, but i still remember that i was taught to pull out first then check it was safe to complete the move, then open the throttle!

works for me as i can break the overtake down and plan each section - makes me that i am doing it safer as i am thinking about it all the way through!

alternatively DaveS - get a Vara then even if you pull out first you will have all the ooomph you need!

(sorry couldn't resist!)

Z

[DaveS]

Thanks for all the comments.
I consider myself a reasonable rider, I've been riding for 22 years with only one minor knock, so I console myself with the fact that I must be doing something right and I do far more than the average mileage at about 20K miles per year. Now before I sound too complacent, I've learnt so much from the advanced riding techniques, it's just the overtaking that doesn't quite fit with me at the moment. I'm also well aware that having 22 years and the mileage I do puts me in a high risk category, hence the training!!!

However I've been practising my overtakes and I'm getting better. Hopefully I'll be a bit more comfortable with it before too long.

[icenian]

A late follow up. I can see the IAM's point.

If you accelerate then your increased speed means you have to have a greater gap between you and the slow vehicle in front. This means you are starting the overtake from further back, and as you are further back down the road then you'll be in a position to see if the road is clear slightly later.

So, you start the manouver later and have further to travel to complete it. This negates the advantage of being slightly quicker. If you do actually manage to get past quicker as a result of doing this, it's probably because you got tempted to go too fast too close to the rear of the vehicle in front?

Well so much for IAM theory, I can see how all that could be true, but it's not necessarily the case. (Unless you are on an IAM run in which case it it The Immutable Law of The Universe).

Suppose for example that you have a good view ahead and can see that you will be able to overtake at a certain point. Say there's a side turn that you don't want to overtake past, but you can see there's clear road beyond it where you will be able to go in a few seconds time. In that case, with appropriate positioning, you could accelerate into a good position at the moment it's safe to pull out -- and still be able to back off if something unexpected occurs.

Also on a twisty road you may know there's a straight, but a short one, round the next bend. You might want to drop back to make a big gap between you and a slow vehicle in front, then accelerate at it to be in a good position and speed to nip past at the point the sight line opens out.

This is way more likely to work on a right hand bend, because then you'd be position to the left for the sight line, and in that case you want to be further back from the vehicle in front that you'd normally be to reduce the angle at which you're pulling out. If it's a left hander and you're positioned to the right I don't think it would be worthwhile.

It has the potential to go horribly wrong if you don't do it right because the temptation is to end up closing right in on someone's back bumper whilst going 20mph quicker than them, anticipating that you'd going to get past, and then the apocryphal tractor pulls out of the unseen gap in the hedge...

The bottom line is though, if you can safely abort your overtake at any point whilst still on the left hand side of the road, you should be fine. If you actually know it's safe to go, WTF are you still on the left hand side for?