Riding the clutch?? Bad for the bike? (Dull question!)

[rssenna]

Interesting debate about use of breaks and I have been sitting here trying to things what I do at junctions etc. I attended a police bikesafe event last year, very good and recommend to any one. It was last year and can't remember word for word but I seem to remember they said they rearly use their front brake and slow down using gears (and good observation/planning). Below 20mph they only use the back brake. I do seem to remember a question being asked to further explain this as some people did not believe them. I seem to remember the answer from police class 1 rider (in fact he had scored the most points the year he passed, something he did mention a couple of times!) that even from 120 to 30 with gears then touch the back brake just before we stop. He did not mention hill starts though!!

[marc lenssen]

Explanation of just one foot on the ground is indeed controle of the bike. If you get to a traffic light and are at a standstill you keep the bike in 1st gear with clutch in of course . Right foot on the ground and front brake applied with two fingers. Always look in your rear view mirrors. If you see a car coming up behind you that does not seem to notice you then you are ready to pull away. If you put both feet down then in that situation (and it is a real one) you would first have to lift up your left foot, redistribute your weight, shift into first gear...and by then you are roadkill.....The throttle is a better friend then the brakes in most cases....
When coasting to a stand still you don;t really need the throttle, it is closed and you brake by shifting down....and using the front brake.

Once you have one or several cars behind you and you feel covered you can put the bike in neutral and release the clutch. keeping it in all the time will add to the wear of the clutch.

Back break braking is just like you used to do on your old bicycle...
easy and it gives you full control over the throttle even while braking...and it won't make your bike dip ...

[AlanH]

That both feet down instruction seems a bit arbitrary - if you get shunted from behind, how're you gonna have time to apply the back brake?

The idea is that you don't need time to apply the brake 'cos you're sitting there with it already applied.

[Critch]

For your bike test (Stan will/may confirm this) your left foot should be down, right foot on the brake, because you can't/shouldn't be using the front brake and throttle at the same time.


This is what i have been told on my lessons,

hope its right i have my test Mid April

[marc lenssen]

when you are at a stand still you do not need to operate the front brake and the throttle, just the front brake. Or no brake at all when you are on a flat surface. Why throttle when you are standing still? You do not use the back brake at standstill. The idea of right foot on the ground and keep bike in first gear and left foot at the gear selector is that you should see a car coming before you get rear ended, keeping the bike in first gear means you can actually pull away from that situation instead of trying to catch a full car weight on you bike brakes... It is a safety technique.

[Baggy]

Couple more pennies for the thread.

I recall that one reason for putting the bike into neutral at lights was in case you were 'nudged' ( from any direction or by anything ) - if you were still in gear and holding the clutch in, you would lurch forward if your hand slipped off, when 'nudged'.

It's all down to following a system to show you're in proper control of the bike at all times - which is important, especially when being tested. So using your rear brake, whilst balancing throttle and clutch prior to pulling away is expected. It does mean a small dance before pulling away - front brake/clutch in/right foot down/left foot up and engage first/ left foot down/right foot up for rear brake/balance throttle and clutch - which takes much, much longer to say than do ( I always use the red-amber phase for that bit, by the time you've done that whilst doing a rear check, the lights are green and you can proceed if safe to do so ).

I've yet to be sat at traffic lights and feel really threatened by a vehicle approaching from behind ( oh err !! )... if you're in a queue, you should leave a gap to move forward into - but that will probably just delay the inevitable. If you're at the stop line, are you really going to cross that line into possible cross-traffic ?

I have on occasion though tapped the brakes to flash my stoplight as a vehicle approached.

[winxp-master]

when you are at a stand still you do not need to operate the front brake and the throttle, just the front brake. Or no brake at all when you are on a flat surface. You do not use the back brake at standstill. The idea of right foot on the ground and keep bike in first gear and left foot at the gear selector is that you should see a car coming before you get rear ended, keeping the bike in first gear means you can actually pull away from that situation instead of trying to catch a full car weight on you bike brakes... It is a safety technique.

Not a very good safety technique me thinks?

You say you should not use any brakes on a flat surface? hmmm there seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread but mostly from marc lenssen who has it completely worng...

When coming to stop and in a stationary position you should engage first gear and put the left foot down, the right foot should be used to apply the back brake.

Reasons... Applying the back brake warns traffic behind you that you are stationary (no brake lights marc lensenn is not a very good safety technique)

If a car does hit you from behind then the bike is easier to control with the back brake on than the front (im talking a very small shunt here not a 50mph hit)

The reason first gear is engaged is that if you do get a small shunt then it is very easy for your foot to slip off the back brake so if you leave the handlebars the bike will stall in gear and prevent further forward momentum (stoping it hit the car in front and involving more vehicles in the accident)

The idea of having your left foot ready to change gear for a quick gettaway is apuzzling one, how is it quicker to be in neutral and have to change to first to move off rather than already be in first and move off? The former prevents you applying the back brake so the only brake left is the front, so you would have to release the front brake, change into first then try to move off beofre the car hits you from behind? hmmm i think not, the likelyhood is you will not be able to prevent a shunt from behind and if you DO hear the screeching of tyres behind you and smoke is filling your mirrors then my advice would be to get off your bike as fast as humanly possible and get the hell out of the way.

Metal can be replaced, you can't, clutches can be replaced...you get the idea.

Just my tuppence worth.

[allyw71]

My turn
If I approach a junction and it looks like I wont be stopped long I will leave it in 1st, may put 1 foot down, may put both feet down, I might pull the front brake on, or maybe the rear, both or none, just whatever I feel like doing at the time. If it looks like I could be stopped for a while I will probably put it in neutral ( to save my left hand, not the clutch), as far as the brakes/feet, same as the short stop but I may also take the opportunity to stand up and pull my boxers out my ass, re-arrange my gonads ect

[Cie]

OK, we need to prevent a lot of confusion that's arising here by keeping it very simple.

When learning to ride, it's left foot down with the bike in gear, right foot on the back brake. This will enable the rider to pull away under any conditions.

Once you've passed your test, you have the option to keep your left foot up and do something with the gears, normally putting the bike in neutral. The main reason for this is mechanical sympathy. It is of course, rather advanced, because everything is done with your right hand, hold the bike still with the brake, but also using the throttle to pull away, which can be tricky on a hill.

There is no right or wrong once you've passed your test, just opinion.

[winxp-master]

I agree Cie it is a personal choice, i didn't mean to come across as having a go at you marc lenssen, i sometimes see these posts and go diving in with my opinion telling all and sundry they are wrong, which ofcourse is not the right thing to do...lol

I thought i was wrong once...........turns out i was right