Front wheel braking and cornering

[RickSkye]

Had a chat with Alba when I was at Glen Coe.

He had a very negative view of braking when cornering. I don't, but I did not want to put him wrong so I thought I would find out first and get other opinions.

As a starting point

Quote from Ride magazine

" if you are braking all the way to the apex, as you would on a racetrack, you are probably going too fast"

I certainly don't do that but I am normally braking as I roll into the corner. Wet and dry. Seem to set the bike up nicely.

Maybe it is perception, I percieve when I brake that the front wheel is being pushed into the ground and getting more grip.

As the English lit teachers says "Discuss"

[Austin]

I am with you Rick, I would say I frequently brake well into corners and don't really have a problem if you know what the bike is going to do - I think while braking you need more steering input so when you let go of the brakes you can expect the bike to steer a bit more but I never really notice this. I do notice it the other way round though - brake fairly firmly once banked over and the bike wants to stand up).

I am sure some of the advanced riding gurus will be along shortly to tell us exactly what we should be doing though. I do know the best things you can when cornering is read the road - signs and road markings, vanishing point, roadside clues, etc aim to get speed about right from all these, get in the optimum position to see through the corner, be smooooooth, and finally hit the gas on the exit.

[Paul-S]

When you brake two important and often missed things happen.

Firstly, the front suspension loads up and on release of the brake it will unload losing grip at the front.

Secondly, the braking effect at the front will cause the bike to want to sit up and go straight on and not where you want it to go i.e. round the bend so it's harder to turn

Also, whilst you're on the brake you can't be on the throttle.

The faster and smoother way to corner is to get the braking done before you turn in, preferably when you are upright. When you do turn in you can be on half + throttle as as the suspension is not unloading while you are leaning therefore the bike can corner faster as it has more grip. As you are already on the throttle before the apex, when you do get to the apex you can sit the bike up sooner and exit the corner much faster as the suspension is only unloading from throttle control not braking unload. This eliminates back end weaving often thought of as tank slapping from the front and incorrectly plastered over by putting on a steering damper.

I hardly use brakes when cornering as I am generally not travelling fast enough on the road and the wide bars on a trailee make it easy to push the bike into corners late by countersteering

[Mudwiz]

Whats this breaks thing??

.

[Paul-S]

Whats this breaks thing??

.

You and me mate

However, from a safety point of view it would show anyone behind that the intention is to slow down

[Whealie]

I am sure some of the advanced riding gurus will be along shortly to tell us exactly what we should be doing though.

Advanced riding gurus are always in the right speed and gear for the corner without needing to brake.

If using the gears to slow you may dab the brake pedal just so the brake light alerts following riders that you are slowing (because not being advanced riding gurus their powers of observation are less highly trained and will not notice they are getting remarkable closer, remarkably fast

[AIRWOLF]

I brake well into the corner's. . . . but the amount of braking pressure is lessened as i go in, so, as the brake is fully off i'm on the gas (gradually, not a big handfull).

Though i must add, one of my favourite's is to try and ride through the twisties without touching the brakes , . . just engine braking, . . . its good practice, . . . . try it, . . . it hones throttle control and road positioning.

ps.
disclaimer.

Jean said the silliest thing Whealie's wife did the day she got stuck in the quick sand on the invasion of wales, . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . .was to take any notice of me. .

[Charlie]

I will agree with Airwolf, using engine braking is much more fun, brakes to knock off speed when you have slightly over read stuff. It also normally means you right in the power, so to speak, for when you open the throttle out of the corner.

[RickSkye]

These are all IMHO, please. Just discussing.

Firstly, the front suspension loads up and on release of the brake it will unload losing grip at the front.

Not if you brake smoothly, the front wheel will be pressed into the ground and the release will not unload the wheel.

Secondly, the braking effect at the front will cause the bike to want to sit up and go straight on and not where you want it to go i.e. round the bend so it's harder to turn

I think we have to distinguish between braking while in the corner and braking into the corner as 2 separate cases.
Grab a hand full mid corner and the bike will sit up, agreed, brake into a corner and the rider is already putting more cornering force in so it will be under control.

Also, whilst you're on the brake you can't be on the throttle.

One week after getting my first bike, 125 honda,( many years ago) I wondered what would happen if I pulled on the front brake while leaving the throttle open in the wet. I found that you can open the throttle with the brake on, but it hurts as your chin hit the road.

[Farky]

Spot on from Paul - S.

I used to have a VFR which was reknown for crap front suspension and brakes but a lovely V4 with craicin engine breaking - learn to ride it well and it rewarded you loads.

I remember my mates talking about how the guys at the California Superbike School teach riders to break properly, went somethink like this;

1, Riders who break deep into corners etc, all ride a fast lap on their own.
2. Same riders are all sent around and told they will be black flagged if they USE their brakes (multiple observers check at each corner).
3. Times compared and all the fastest times where set with NO brakes being used.

Lesson - corner speed is always higher WITHOUT brakes during cornering.

Racers ride deep into corners to correct lines but nearly always suffer exit speed unless they are called Rossi or Stoner and even then its aggresively standing the bike up to open the throttle early which involves special tyres.

If you must use brakes into a corner, use the rear, its not the one fighting for grip on entry. Id recommend a track day to anyone for learning braking skills, it took the deep braking out of me and made me a far better rider - and my rides a lot more fun too - and safer.