Stiff penalties for leading a ride out

[Bluff]

We don't know what observations and evidence were presented to the beak on the day. He / she made that decision based on more than what is in the couple of paragraphs cited here.

[Paul-S]

Whenever I have led a ride out and kept to the speed limits I have often been asked why I exceeded them by other riders who needed to exceed the speed limits to catch up due to losing ground on overtakes or roundabouts or bends etc.

When I dropped off by approximately 10mph everyone seemed to keep up and then probably rode within the limits

Just my thoughts but having seen the above posts I'll probably ride slower unless on my own

[pdsquire]

Austin's right up to a point. If the chap on the R1 was within the speed limit they'd probably struggle prosecute him at all. If he was above it then he might find it difficult to persuade the court that there was no intention or expectation that they'd be speeding.

But as has been pointed out, it is a matter of fact for each court.

As to the disclaimer, there's no magic bullet to stop being charged in this way, but if there's been a pre-ride chat and a disclaimer signed to the effect that each rider accepts s/he is responsible for his/her own speed and adherence to traffic laws then I'd have thought most courts would have difficulty to convict on a joint enterprise basis or to use the fact that a rider was the 'lead' as an aggravating feature.

Excellent idea!

[Warthog]

As someone pointed out, I don't expect to see this used against cars in convoy a la boyz in Corsas on a Friday night.

However, it is a very effective ploy to reduce motorcycling as a social leisure pursuit....

And they ask me why I left the UK.....

[alpslapper]

but if there's been a pre-ride chat ...courts would have difficulty to convict on a joint enterprise basis or to use the fact that a rider was the 'lead' as an aggravating feature.

Excellent idea!

Probably why on every serv rideout and every IAM rideout Ive been on the ride leader makes it clear we are all responsible for our own ride. Theres no signed disclaimer but theres between 5 and 20 witnesses it was said.

[alpslapper]

but it's legally right because they were involved in what's called a 'joint enterprise'.

If you break the law and you do so in company with other people then unless you can show that you tried to disassociate yourself from their offending, or that when you began the enterprise you had no idea what was going to happen, you will be sentenced the same as they.

Interestingly enough, in this american clip, the clerk in the vid bellow killed the thief, but the thiefs accomplice was charged with his murder, not the clerk.

[Bluff]

BBC1 8.30 Monday night. Panorama, 'Lethal Enterprise'

Exactly this subject

[royster]

on a ride out just agree that if one gets caught speeding he/she says they dont know the riders in front and are out on their own - simples

bit of a ****e law though i ride me fzr1000 fast but when i know its clear or as clear as possible

[alpslapper]

on a ride out just agree that if one gets caught speeding he/she says they dont know the riders in front and are out on their own - simples

Did you get that PDSquire, Jones and Snaphappy

We'll certainly be denying we know you

[Traveller]

When a group of vehicles run in convoy the following vehicles have to reach higher speeds in order to keep up. When the leading vehicle in a convoy has to slow down (eg for a bend in the road) the rest of the vehicles in the convoy are slowed by the leading vehicle, not the bend in the road.

If there are ten vehicles in the convoy and they are traveling thirty meters apart the last vehicle in the convoy has to slow down 300 meters from the braking point. The first vehicle can accelerate as soon as it has rounded the bend. The last vehicle is slowed to the bend speed for longer than the leading vehicle so the gap will increase. The only way for the following vehicles to close the gap is to increase its speed.

Even when a convoy of vehicles is being escorted and traffic is being controlled to allow the convoy to make progress the practical maximum number of vehicles than can be managed is no more than about ten. The average speed of each vehicle in the convoy will be the same but the peak speed reached by each vehicle would increase the the further down the group it is. The tenth vehicle has to work much harder to keep up.

That means when leading a group of riders and dilligently observing the speed limits the following riders will have to exceed the limits to keep up. The more in the group the faster the last rider will have to travel.

This shows up as a practical problem for new riders who natrually don't want to lead a ride but would prefer to follow and learn. They find themselves being left behind and think they are slower than the leaders. When they try to keep up the accidents occur.

I think this contributes to the types of accidents that involve new, or less confident riders in a group.