Cornering at speed with full tank of petrol.

[AlanH]

Good post. Will a street tyre grip more or less with the bike leant over further?

(i.e, if I'm in no danger of touching hard bits but grip is iffy (wet corner, for example), should I stay vertical and lean the bike more or should I hang off the bike to try and keep the bike vertical?)

Remain in a normal seated position and ride at an appropriate speed. When did you last see a copper hanging off his bike or staying vertical and leaning the bike over?

Shifting your weight around while you are in a bend can unsettle the suspension. If you are going to lean off to gain more ground clearance, you need to do it in advance and not shift weight mid corner when you sense something is not quite right. If grip is iffy, you should not be riding fast enough to need to lean off to gain ground clearance.

Laying the bike further over and sitting further upright is fine for off-road or supermoto where you are on a light bike and trying to slide the bike around the corner with the back hanging out (with a foot ready to kick it up if it tries to lowside). If that's not what you're trying to do then laying a heavier road bike further over and sitting more upright can cause all sorts of nasty problems. If the rear lets go then grips again, the resulting highside will at best launch you skywards. At worst it will snap your femur and break your pelvis.

If you are hanging off and the bike highsides, you'll generally just get dumped on the floor as long as you let go - but it can still launch you if you don't make a positive bail-out move.

YMMV

[jarl]

Good point on the coppers- will leave my arse planted firmly in situ

[Yeti]

What they all said init lot of year round riders on here!

I don't have that many years experience so people may argue I have little place to comment, but in those years I have covered quite a few miles. In the first 3 years I was clocking up sometimes over 1000mi a week in year round riding. So personally I think it is just time in the saddle and encountering situations and problems that expands your ability to deal with and problem solve 'on the hoof'.

I would always advise keeping a bit of grip in your arse pocket to deal with the unforseen!!

After watching learning and experiencing the trials and tribulations of everyday year round riding I (may not be the by the book way but it's how I ride) tend to try and keep myself in the position that I have enough grip to 'duck' up the inside of a problem or obstacle if a corner is involved. The reason I base some of my problem solving on this method is that I have found that it seems safer and easier to go tight and use the aftermath 'my side' run wide road to get things back in shape and re-compose myself and the bike in a safer place. This is as opposed to running wide round said problem and then trying to sort yourself out with possibly a harsher correction on what may be a worsening surface whilst running into more problems eg. faced with on-coming traffic or a painfull looking wall, parked car or even mountainside!

I do also however advocate testing the water occasionally when it is within reason safe to do so. By this i mean, put yourself on gravel or a manhole or roadmarkings with the expectation of loosing a little grip. Knowing how the bike (and you!) behave in these situations helps when you get caught out unexpectedly. Hitting a manhole or slippy corner and freezing up just because you know it is a slippy manhole or possiply slippy corner is a sure way of getting out of shape! when in fact if you know the bike will just 'tuck' a little, if it even looses grip at all!, and recover when back on the black stuff will set you in good stead for a fairly non-descript wiggle and recover.

I also tend to find it helpful to keep a scrolling list of the top five hazards and problems going in your head and just shuffle them as they increase or diminish. Even if they don't make the top five they are still there just going further up or down the list. Even if you are riding in a 'perfect' situation, good weather, no cars, good surface etc, I bet you can still keep a top five there if you think hard and far enough ahead. What day of the week is it? what time of day is it? Where in the argricultural calendar are you? What was the last construction site you passed? When did the last heavy rain wash out the stoney gateways? Has only one side of the hedge been cut in that road? have the local pikeys been steeling road signs? are you crossing a county border where the road surface changes mid bend? they are always there!, just try and imagine, and constantly tell yourself 'no suprises' and you will look for them before they present themselves! Constantly dealing with potential threats in terms of strategy can save vital decision making delays in reacting. Your brain will use a preprogrammed response as a reflex (very fast!) rather than trying to calculate multiple variables and the best solution in situ (very slow!)

Anyway I suppose I'll go and stuff it in a ditch now! (incidentally my first off! headfirst into an overgrown ditch I thought was a gap in the hedge into a field! 'oooo too fast.......oh I'm gunna be alright.......brill a gap in the hedge...ouch my ribs hurt! muuum )

TTFN

[Grendel]

Ok so now I’m confused do you lean in, lean out (and shake it all about), counterstear, sit upright or all 4 and hope for the best?

Or just continue dancing the hokey cokey and stay off the bike

[Yeti]

I dunno I don't seem to be aware of doing any but I guess I just sit in a normal position on the bike and guess I countersteer to some degree. I certainly countersteer if I want to tip the bike more forcefully if for example I have a reluctant to relax pillion, or a set of quick corners and want the bike to respond a bit quicker.

[jarl]

Sit with your bum in situ unless you're pushing it (in which case, get off the roads!) and countersteer seems to be the best method, putting your weight through the outside peg.

Or at least, that's how I understand the combined wisdom of this thread!

[Dee Duble Yuh]

Short answer: Yes.


Long answer (at the risk of giving this thread a new lease of life): Yes, but there are some occasions when getting your backside off the saddle might help:

• if playing on a safe dry ice-free road, good road surface, good visibility, no on-coming traffic (yes, I know "get off the roads!" but hey, calcuated risks and all that);
• if you accidentally enter a bend too fast and you are concerned that bumps in the road surface may unsettle the bike.

With your weight off the saddle (e.g. hanging off etc) the bike can handle minor imperfections in the road more easily. The bike can respond to a bump, and if a tyre looses grip momentarily it doesn't send bike and rider off at a tangent. Find a traffic-free roundabout with good visibility, and see what effect unweighting the saddle has.

As others have said, it's not a sensible way to ride, and a smooth controlled rider can probably out-corner a track-day hooligan, but it's a technique to hold in reserve. I can't remember the last time I felt the need to unweight the saddle - countersteering seems more effective (bit this is more fun )

[Alistair]

Correct Pete H.
Don't think it would not have happened if the tank had been half full. It was the wet road which probably had its share of diesel spill.
As regards traction and bike lean, take a tip from trials riders riding along slippery slopes or racers cornering. The body weight shift to the inside allows the bike to remain more upright with more rubber contact. Note that this is most effective when the rider presses much of his weight on the outside footpeg. Additional benefit is that the bike will not be so quick to slip out from under you. Of course, at appropriate speeds this should not be necessary.

[Jackdaw]

Another conditioned response to finding yourself entering a corner too fast is to back off the throttle. This causes understeer, sending you towards the middle of the road (and oncoming traffic) on left-handers and towards the kerb/ditch on right-handers. Not a nice feeling and difficult to counter.