camping in winter?

[Sharribee]

Xander, the Black Mountain in Brecon is stunning and very remote away from the usual tourists that invade the countryside. Not sure about campsites but I have been known to sleep on the top of the mountains in that area, may be a bit of a hike to get there but Llyn Y Fan Fawr at the base of Fan Hir is stunning and very remote.

[Sharribee]

Oh and there are some lovely areas in Mid Wales too, Cwymystwyth way, that way you can take the bike. We found a lovely remote campsite on the road between rhyader and devils bridge. If you are interested I can find the grid figures for either this one or the black mountain

[Xander]

Xander, the Black Mountain in Brecon is stunning and very remote away from the usual tourists that invade the countryside. Not sure about campsites but I have been known to sleep on the top of the mountains in that area, may be a bit of a hike to get there but Llyn Y Fan Fawr at the base of Fan Hir is stunning and very remote.

WOW this looks like the ticket... I only asked about camp grounds cus i dont know the laws here. and i hate getting rousted after i make camp.. so please yes Shar if you could get me some grid references that would be great.

[RainMan]

Xander, if you get a chance to do a winter camping trip, I wonder if you wouldn't mind giving us some feedback on your experience, i.e. how your sleeping bag, tent etc stood up to the temperatures, advice on what you would/wouldn't do again and so on, I've always found the reports from people on this forum a lot more useful than the "experts" !

[Reevie]

If your doing the Elephant here are a few rules i Learnt last time i was there.

1.Dont try and get there in one hit ----take at least two days there and the same back.

2. Dont camp near Germans (sorry Vader) they stay up revving bikes until all hours.

3. use at least a minus 30 doss bag.

4. Sleep on a camp bed to keep you off the ground.

5. Take very very very warm kit -----Snug pack is good gear or North.
face

6. Go on three wheels (next time i go i'm taking my mates GTR1000 side car outfit)

7. Get absolutely rat arsed and join in the fun.

8. use as many plug in warm gizmos as the bikes charging system will take.

9. Do take a Geodesic tent

[RainMan]

Excellent, this is great advice coming from obvious experience. Right, I'm off to the Transalp forum to see is anyone can flog me a set of stabilisers for me bike......

[1gear1brake]

I've camped in the snow in Edale in the peak district. Beautiful contryside, great site, and a pub very nearby with a huge log fire. 2 sleeping bags kept me toasty warm in the night.

[Xander]

Xander, if you get a chance to do a winter camping trip, I wonder if you wouldn't mind giving us some feedback on your experience, i.e. how your sleeping bag, tent etc stood up to the temperatures, advice on what you would/wouldn't do again and so on, I've always found the reports from people on this forum a lot more useful than the "experts" !

I can give you a bit of that feed back already as none of my kit is new..

My two tents are both north face 1) Slick rock summer tent.. can not handle extreme anything.. but at under 1.2 kg for a tight two man it is great.
2) Road runner 23.. also a squezzy 2 man. freestanding 3 season ultralight tent (north face 4 season is way over the top: I also have an mountain 25 that I just dont use.. it is too much for anything but real expedition work... weights a tonne!)

.. FREE STANDING 2 wall is best.. this way at least the core tent does not need to be pegged which allows for a stronger structure when pegged. For winter you want it as small as you can get away with. this way your body heat heats up a small amount of air and only has to keep a small warm.. down side is moisture build up..

on sleeping bags i am a bit of a maveric. I do the layering thing.. (so I carry two bags.) One 0 degs and one -15, this give me a vast range of temps and allows me not to over heat, i wold estimate this to add up to about -30ish..both down. (I am torn over the synthetic/down debate) Over heating IS actually a worry when winter camping you waste heat and = energy.. you want to balance fill/loft and and never go below 90% ratio (down to feathers)...

.. Personally i found that the mat is almost more important then the bag.. down nor synthetic do anything when you are laying on it.. (it is the trapped air that makes you warm).... dirt (usually wet ) can suck heat out of you up to 20x faster then air (water =25X faster) so you NEED a barrier = mat... I personally love Thermarests.. but i dont really think it matters what .. just no air beds.. you can not warm that volume up.. you will freeze.. for actual snow i go a 1 inch mat for cold ground i go 1/4 inch. DEEP FREEZE I go to 2 inch..but this lives with my M25 in the storage shed.

last always keep a high glucose hi/ complex carb (read nuts mixed with choc/sultanas = gorp) food near by when sleeping.. a couple of mouthfuls of gorp can heat you up more they you would believe.

Seal skin socks are an essential.. keep your head covered. (especially if you are bald like me) .. Keeping dry is critical.. carry two pairs of gloves.. and use the wet ones when you are likely to get wet again.. better to keep drying out the same pair then have two damp pairs..

in snow.. try and dig down to earth, use a foot print. DO NOT EVER COOK INSIDE>> bugger fire it is carbon monoxide that is the really worry.. dont use gas lamps in small tents (i never do they are too dangerous even in big tents.). CO will put you into the big sleep before you can know about it..

In really bad weather cover the tent in snow and this will get things nice and warm ... but keep a air vent open..

I agree with MarkR if you have never winter camped before at least do a lot of reading/course or two ..no book will teach you how to spot avalanche snow, or cravas (SP?) rescue. and do a few trial in proximity of civilization.. dont think that back country snow camping is easy.. (I dont know about snow bike rallies)

in true back county bring an epirb. we also carry locating radios. and flairs. register you route and etas!

Hopefully this winter the wife and I'll will get back country..at least once.. but time is not on our side .. I am lucky I get 11days of at chrimbo.. MRSX get 4 ... something like Sharribee's mountain is what we are most likely to take a few day walk to.. (out of the way but not really back country.).. So I can give you a UK remote update ..

[RainMan]

Wow, what a star, I've copied and pasted that little lot into my PDA for future reference, I like the idea of doing something close to home, like Wales, as a toe in the water excercise, even for just one weekend, before taking on a more adventurous journey such as the Elephant Treffen.

[Mudwiz]

I agree with Xander on most of that,

1. I use 1 bag and 2 mats, a very light weight 3 season thermarest, that is used on its own in summer, and a big closed cell foam one too. Same maths, different solution. .
2. I always cook inside, but with some form of vent ensured. The major problem I get here is the water vapour from whatever is being cooked condensing on the inside of the tent, but it really helps to warm things up.
3. I use a down bag, with paranoid keeping dryness, and spare clothes JUST for sleeping.
4. If the temps are going to be below zero for all the time I'll use some down clothing, but never if it may be above, its useless in moments in a damp place on a sweaty guy like me.
5. That said, if the activities mean I am bound to get wet/muddy cold, I won't use any down at all.
6. Food is the key. GORP is good, jelly beans are quicker, jelly bean/digestives every 2 hour cold wake up means enough sleep.

That sort of works for me and can run up to 7-8 days without needing to come down, mostly food carrying capacity related.

Cravass (again sp??) or glacier work is not required in the UK, but many of the other alpine skills can make the differance between having a good day you planned, or finding out how effective your winter kit is in extremis!!