XR400 Stage 2 cam with wiseco 440 Kit - help please

[paulmkemp]

I am in the process of getting my bike back together having blown it up!

The guy that is doing the engine rebuild has asked me to see if I can get any advice on the set-up before he begins the engine rebuild for me. He is a brilliant bloke and is basically trying to same me the expense of extra time building/testing etc.

He is about to refit the barrel and piston it having been re bored and sleeved with a wiseco 440 kit. And at the same time fit a stage 2 race cam, new standard Honda rockers, cam belt and a second hand replacement cylinder head.

As I understand it (which believe me I'm a rider not a mechanic!) What he is after is advise as to whether any one has a similar set up or experience to advise:

Can the cam be dropped in with no further mods? (coz it came with a disclaimer type document mentioning that this kind of additional work is sometimes necessary)

Will the new piston / cam get along together without having to modify / adjust valve seats?? as apparently the valves will be opening differently/ longer than before and at the same time. ?

He mentioned the use of plasticene to check it out but this involves additional labour to build, set-up, test, strip down etc etc.

I’m sorry if this is a bit sketchy/vague but like I said what I know about engineering you can fit on the back of a penny black !! any help or advice is much appreciated

Cheers

Paul

[jasonbc]

I am in the process of getting my bike back together having blown it up!

The guy that is doing the engine rebuild has asked me to see if I can get any advice on the set-up before he begins the engine rebuild for me. He is a brilliant bloke and is basically trying to same me the expense of extra time building/testing etc.

He is about to refit the barrel and piston it having been re bored and sleeved with a wiseco 440 kit. And at the same time fit a stage 2 race cam, new standard Honda rockers, cam belt and a second hand replacement cylinder head.

As I understand it (which believe me I'm a rider not a mechanic!) What he is after is advise as to whether any one has a similar set up or experience to advise:

Can the cam be dropped in with no further mods? (coz it came with a disclaimer type document mentioning that this kind of additional work is sometimes necessary)

Will the new piston / cam get along together without having to modify / adjust valve seats?? as apparently the valves will be opening differently/ longer than before and at the same time. ?

He mentioned the use of plasticene to check it out but this involves additional labour to build, set-up, test, strip down etc etc.

I’m sorry if this is a bit sketchy/vague but like I said what I know about engineering you can fit on the back of a penny black !! any help or advice is much appreciated

Cheers

Paul

Don't bother with the cam stick the standard one back in. Every xr i've known with these things i them are more hassle than there worth you'll spend more time trying to start it than you will riding it. You will have to adjust the valve clearances. My bike had the 440 weisco high compression pistion rings and the ful gubbins on it. It ended up looking like this
















hope this is food for thought. Forget all the bolt-on c**p and put it back together as standard.
PS They don't have a cambelt they use a chain (photo'd 2 up from this comment). I don't think it needs to be rebored if your fitting the 440 kit. They just press in the wall of the liner is just thinner than that of a 397cc

[paulmkemp]

Hi Jason

Thanks for the reply. I must admit that I am dissapointed to hear that you think the Stage 2 cam is a waste of time/money.

I bought it because I thought it sounded a good mod and it was about half the price of a standard Honda cam!

I have been without the bike for well over 3 months now so do not relish the thought of more time waiting for parts (a lot of the bits I got were off ebay from the States)

It has already been rebored, sleeved and rehoned by an engineering firm who took best part of 4 weeks too!

So far I have;
bought 2 cam chains (DiD and a Honda one)
bought a complete cylender head (2nd hand)
bought 1 Stage 2 cam
bought 4 new Honda rockers
bought complete 440 wiseco kit (piston,sleeve & gaskets)

I will take your advice and have a look round now for a standard cam.

What did all the dameage to your XR? was it pretty much along the same lines as mine? did it blow up straight away? Did you have to run it in etc?

Thanks again for your advice mate, which is very much appeciated.

Cheers

Paul

[jasonbc]

Hi Jason

Thanks for the reply. I must admit that I am dissapointed to hear that you think the Stage 2 cam is a waste of time/money.

I bought it because I thought it sounded a good mod and it was about half the price of a standard Honda cam!

I have been without the bike for well over 3 months now so do not relish the thought of more time waiting for parts (a lot of the bits I got were off ebay from the States)

It has already been rebored, sleeved and rehoned by an engineering firm who took best part of 4 weeks too!

So far I have;
bought 2 cam chains (DiD and a Honda one)
bought a complete cylender head (2nd hand)
bought 1 Stage 2 cam
bought 4 new Honda rockers
bought complete 440 wiseco kit (piston,sleeve & gaskets)

I will take your advice and have a look round now for a standard cam.

What did all the dameage to your XR? was it pretty much along the same lines as mine? did it blow up straight away? Did you have to run it in etc?

Thanks again for your advice mate, which is very much appeciated.

Cheers

Paul

i got all my parts new from davivd silver on the 4 week wait when it went tits up if i remember correctly the prices were roughly.

1: cylinder complete with liner £247
2: piston £30
3: rings £30
4: gasket set top & bottom £70.

the only thing i couldn't get from him was the conrod i got that from offroadonly £99. that then cost another £80 to have if fitted and balanced and true'd up. Honda would only supply a complete crank assemble £500 on the 4 week wait (4 week wait is roughly 1/3rd cheaper than next day).

The 440 kit caused some of the damage caused by over revving but a couple of engineers said would have happened at some point as there was evidence of metal fatigue in the conrod. The berst thing you can do is leave the motor standard and it will out live you. Fanny about with it and you'll have all sorts of problems. On mine the extra power and torque damaged the rod which then caused the piston to whip the liner, cracked the liner and damaged the piston. The bike ran fine for quitea while then it started burning oil. Then i went out one day to practise got petrol came out of the petrol station had a funny rattle it died and wouldn't start any more. That was when i discovered the extent of the damage now i treat it like a baby

[paulmkemp]

i got all my parts new from davivd silver on the 4 week wait when it went tits up if i remember correctly the prices were roughly.

1: cylinder complete with liner £247
2: piston £30
3: rings £30
4: gasket set top & bottom £70.

the only thing i couldn't get from him was the conrod i got that from offroadonly £99. that then cost another £80 to have if fitted and balanced and true'd up. Honda would only supply a complete crank assemble £500 on the 4 week wait (4 week wait is roughly 1/3rd cheaper than next day).

The 440 kit caused some of the damage caused by over revving but a couple of engineers said would have happened at some point as there was evidence of metal fatigue in the conrod. The berst thing you can do is leave the motor standard and it will out live you. Fanny about with it and you'll have all sorts of problems. On mine the extra power and torque damaged the rod which then caused the piston to whip the liner, cracked the liner and damaged the piston. The bike ran fine for quitea while then it started burning oil. Then i went out one day to practise got petrol came out of the petrol station had a funny rattle it died and wouldn't start any more. That was when i discovered the extent of the damage now i treat it like a baby

Thanks for the info Jason, having had the 440 barrel & piston done already I think I am going to give it a go but I took your advice and have just "won" another used standard cam (with complete head) on ebay.
Guess what? ... its on its way from the good old U S and A (more delays)

Thanks again.

Paul

[jasonbc]

Thanks for the info Jason, having had the 440 barrel & piston done already I think I am going to give it a go but I took your advice and have just "won" another used standard cam (with complete head) on ebay.
Guess what? ... its on its way from the good old U S and A (more delays)

Thanks again.

Paul

I wasn't trying to put you off having it done mate, i was just telling you from my experience with it. For spares always remember David Silver and don't froget 2 prices for everything but you have to ask for the 3-4 week wait it will save you a lot of money