[Shep]

I have just watched this superb film by Aaron Russo the Hollywood film producer who produced Eddie Murphy,s "Trading Places"

This is real scary stuff, but it shows beyond any reasonable doubt that we are in no way a democracy and we have in reality very little freedom

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...032&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

 

[Hagrid]

Ohhh... Don't get me started.....

Needless to say, I'm in total agreement.....

(Roll on Chinas turn to rule the world, give it 20 years or so. At least their honest with the fact their not a democracy )

 

[Wee Jack]

Don't talk to me about american fascists - I work for the bastards - and I've had a shite day !!

 

[alpslapper]

Well of course we don't live in a democracy !!! We are all SUBJECTS of the queen dontchaknow !!!

 

[russh]

Well of course we don't live in a democracy !!! We are all SUBJECTS of the queen dontchaknow !!!

I'm no subject I'm a free man!

I hate the the Royals as much as Bush and his neo-conservatives!

....ooh I will stop as my blood pressure can't cope.

 

[GeoBloke]

Haven't seen the film but, depressingly, I'm fairly sure it doesn't contain anything I wasn't convinced of before. Going there in two weeks' time for business and not at all looking forward to it. :angry2:

 

[Xander]

.snip... Going there in two weeks' time for business and not at all looking forward to it. :angry2:

My condolences..

 

[Wee Jack]

And they really, genuinely, totally, do not understand why anyone would wish harm on them. I had a HUGE heated debate , bordering on fisticuffs , whith one of my Texan "contacts" who just couldn't get his head round why anyone would want to fly jets into buildings. He just did not get the reverse side of the coin about US foreign oppression...........bah don't get me started.................

Land of the free and home of the brave ??? Land of the selfish and home of the paranoid more like ..............

 

[icenian]

Don't judge the USA by it's government. How'd you like to be judged by ours?

And don't forget who your friends are.

 

[Steve T]

And don't forget who your friends are.

Friends!? Freinds!?

With freinds like them, we dont need enemies!

PS - I'm a luvver not a fighter, so dont pick on me - - - - please

 

[GeoBloke]

Don't judge the USA by it's government. How'd you like to be judged by ours?

Precisely. It's important not to equate the actions/views of the Bush adminstration with the average American. I know quite a few Americans(mostly in New England) and have to say that without exception, they all intelligent, politically aware people who hate the current dictator/president, his war-mongering "foreigh policy" and what he's done to both their country and others. Obviously there are black holes (places like Texas spring to mind and perhaps a few other states in the Deep South and MidWest) occupied by the relatively clueless but show me a country that doesn't have such places.

 

[RainMan]

Well of course we don't live in a democracy !!! We are all SUBJECTS of the queen dontchaknow !!!

Hmm, well my Grandmother used to be, but I'm not. (took me a while to figure that one out )

 

[alpslapper]

Precisely. It's important not to equate the actions/views of the Bush adminstration with the average American. I know quite a few Americans(mostly in New England) and have to say that without exception, they all intelligent, politically aware people who hate the current dictator/president, his war-mongering "foreigh policy" and what he's done to both their country and others. Obviously there are black holes (places like Texas spring to mind and perhaps a few other states in the Deep South and MidWest) occupied by the relatively clueless but show me a country that doesn't have such places.

It always cracks me up, reading in travel books, the part where the intreped adventurers chat in a bar over a cold Bud with some friendly americans, tell them theyve just travelled from Chile, and get asked, is that near California, or some such
I think personally thats at the crux of some of the american foreign policies and how the government can get away with such antagonistism; a lot of americans are really really lovely people, and jsut dont get that theres actually a world outside of the confines of their own continent.

 

[Hagrid]

occupied by the relatively clueless but show me a country that doesn't have such places.

Ohhh are we starting on Sousers again here...? Oh...

Theres only one word required to sum up American F.Policy... "Money/Oil"... OK and "xenophobia", with maybe a hint of "Pride"...

More than one, sorry..

I'm with Wee Jack on this one all the way...

 

[GeoBloke]

I think personally thats at the crux of some of the american foreign policies and how the government can get away with such antagonistism; a lot of americans are really really lovely people, and jsut dont get that theres actually a world outside of the confines of their own continent.

Not to defend their ignorance or anything but having lived there for a while I have a working theory that at least some of that geographic cluelessness is down to the sheer size of the US. Where I lived(and this is 10 years ago), it was a 10-12 hour drive to the nearest international airport and it was extremely rare to meet anyone who had travelled outside their own state, let alone the US, just because it required quite an effort to do so. A City Break, like we’re blessed with here where I can jump on a plane at my nearest airport(15 minute drive) and be in Barcelona two hours later for the weekend, is a completely unknown concept. The kids may learn where other countries are on a map in school but this information is eventually discarded/forgotten through lack of reinforcement and irrelevance. Like the O-level Spanish you took years ago. You might remember a couple of words but vocabulary beyond “hola”, “adios” and “una cervesa, por favor”? Grammatical construction? Verb conjugation? Ermmmm…no. World events to many Americans are both personally and geographically a very long way away.
Unlike Britain, or practically any of the EU countries, sitting cheek by jowl with a number of other countries with different languages, architecture, food, history etc… the US exists in relative geographic isolation. Bordering only Mexico and, some 1200 miles to the North, Canada. No one jumps in the car for an international holiday experience (and, no offence to any of our Canadian members, but let's be honest, crossing the border between any of the northern US states and Canada doesn't exactly induce culture shock, does it?). There's also an effect related to having so many hliday destinations on one's doorstep (world class ski resorts, hot sunny beaches etc...) that probably erodes the motivation to go through all the hassle of foreign travel.

In the end it comes down to the fact that the US is a big place and just as it is here, contains the full range of humanity. From the well spoken, well educated and well travelled types to the amiable but ignorant(perhaps blissfully so) to the just plain pig-stupid who, like the semi-literate, murderous idiot currently taking up space in the White House, couldn’t point to France on a world map if you held one of their own guns to their head.

 

[Steve C]

I have just watched this superb film by Aaron Russo the Hollywood film producer who produced Eddie Murphy,s "Trading Places"

This is real scary stuff, but it shows beyond any reasonable doubt that we are in no way a democracy and we have in reality very little freedom
...snip

Thanks for that link Shep - wonderful.
As for the West's (UK government included) position on democracy, we need only to check the collective response to the elections on the West Bank to see whether we genuinely believe in democracy.
Or check back to the introduction of guns on our streets in the form of armed law enforcement officers.
As far as I can tell, our own political system favours the people that are interested in their own power and advancement over those that are interested in public service.
It leaves me very sad.

 

[Xander]

Not to defend their ignorance or anything but having lived there for a while I have a working theory that at least some of that geographic cluelessness is down to the sheer size of the US. Where I lived(and this is 10 years ago), it was a 10-12 hour drive to the nearest international airport and it was extremely rare to meet anyone who had travelled outside their own state, let alone the US, just because it required quite an effort to do so. .

Not that i disagree in concept.. but the augment against that is Australia... which is almost as big.. but has fewer people and fewer airports and to go anywhere you have to get on a plane for several hours (and drive several hours to get there in the first place), and while there is of course some people who are just as bad as the worse of the americans (G.W. in particular):laughing4:. The level of foreign policy ignorance and not having a clue of what is happening out side of the island is significantly less or at least significantly less obvious. Just a point to play devils advocate

 

[Shep]

Some really interesting points being brought up here. I think the film is aimed squarely at the Government of America and how it has been perverted. I agree with all the comments made the average American is the same as the average Brit, They have very inteligent educated people, so de we. They have Red Neck idiots, we have our Chav element.

What i thought was amazing about he film was the Income Tax bit, no law on the books in America to say you have to pay Income Tax and over 100% of all the Income Tax collected goes to pay the bankers who have lent the Government NOTHING.

Abraham Lincoln and JFK were going to a system whereby the Govrnment would issue money BOTH ASSASINATED. I guess being paid $450 Billion a year in Interest is a lot of motivation to commit murder

 

[beep]

Not that i disagree in concept.. but the augment against that is Australia... which is almost as big.. but has fewer people and fewer airports and to go anywhere you have to get on a plane for several hours (and drive several hours to get there in the first place), and while there is of course some people who are just as bad as the worse of the americans (G.W. in particular):laughing4:. The level of foreign policy ignorance and not having a clue of what is happening out side of the island is significantly less or at least significantly less obvious. Just a point to play devils advocate

Interesting arguement. I agree with your thinking. American's isolationist seems to be more cultural than geographic. You could argue that Oz is surrounded by "more foreign" cultures than the US (eg. Indonesia), but ethnically the US is probably more diverse - more people from more nations have settled in the US than probably any other nation on the planet. Maybe this is reason that American society is appears so unquestioningly patriotic - it's a good way to unify a nation made up from so many different minorities (all of whome came to America to escape something or have a better life). Add to this patriotism, America's wealth and military strength and it's quite undertandable why some (not all) American's aren't that interested in what goes on outside their borders.

 

[Xander]

but ethnically the US is probably more diverse - m

I dont know if this is true.. remember Aus is even younger, most people know where their family originally came from, and for many years (not now) Aus has had a very liberal emigration policy. Aus had a policy of inviting white Europeans to live there until the late 60s, and would take in refugees from anywhere in Europe (my family was one of them in '49) I think it would be fair to say that now the immigration to the Aus is skewed towards south east Asians and Asians, but it is increasingly so from the African nations. It is an increasingly diverse nation..