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dayglo
4K views 29 replies 17 participants last post by  Nessmuk 
#1 ·
Had two really narrow escapes where cars just havent seen me decided to buy a Richa reflective waistcoat now nobody nods!! do they think Im an anorak!!!
 
#2 ·
Not at all,
I wear a high viz ex police full waistcoat for the commutes etc , and its better to be alive than dead. People still nod and wave:thumbright: .

As far as I`ll conerened they take me as I am or not:rolleyes: one world many choices.

you carry on enjoyong your 2 wheels snugg in the satisfaction you are a individual.
 
#3 ·


I am not a anorak .. just VERY VERY UNCOOL ..
Well thats the option of the Sportbikers round here.. Its very uncool to be seen ...

Very uncool to drive a transalp rather than a R1 ..

Very Uncool to drive a bike with a white helmet ..

Very uncool to be a friendly and courteous driver.

But at least the cagers can see me
, I noticed a huge difference when coming to junctions etc ..

I was unsure if I wanted to be Uncool .. but like you after a close call ,
I decided to be uncool and ALIVE .

And most bikers still nod or wave .. even the bike cops .. Haha
 
#9 ·
Riding an unusual bike in the correct gear is most likely to be the cause for cagers to be more curious as to your mode of transport.
 
#4 ·
Same as Tramp
Police issue waistcoat, I dont care about the waves or nods as long as the cages take notice if they think I'm plod all the better it keeps them off my tail
The High Viz is more popular in the UK than over here so far I have not noticed anything negative
Safe Ridin'
 
#6 ·
I like to think of myself as a trendsetter!
Used Oxford yellow bib but still found cages pulling out on me. I then got the helmet and no one does (hope this lasts)
I still have friends ;) and I nod to everyone including scooters- they not so much nod back but there shoulders seem to move a lot.... Someone said they may be chuckling.... Nah I don't think so.?


These days I don't wear the yellow bib as I feel like a marker pen!

It is also a babe magnet.... Yes it is... On the ferry back from ireland, a qute young student (girl btw) came up and asked me if it was yellow or green as as my answer would end their argument
 
#7 ·
Cannot be much doubt that the more you can be seen, the safer it will be - especially if commuting. Perversely, this sometimes means the car driver does some very odd things - especially women - but on balance, far safer to be seen.

The downside of course is that you can end up looking like a large highligher pen leaving a phosphorescent trail of image burn-in on the retinas of any passing persons. This is seriously un-cool.

For me, a combination of assuming the worst, defensive riding, the permanent headlight and not riding in busy cities is excuse enough not to wear such things - until I hit some arse pulling out of course...
 
#11 ·
#15 ·
I remember a discussion years ago as to the merits or otherwise of having your motorbike headlights on for visibility - one person said when they weren't on their bike they drove a bloody great big red fire-engine, with all headlights on, flashing blue lights and sirens going, and STILL people pulled out in front of him!

Amazing how current fashion (and limited consumer choice) favours helmet colours/designs that appear almost designed to be camouflaged - try buying a plain red or orange helmet. Hence my helmet is same as AckAckFlack's.
 
#16 ·
I remember a discussion years ago as to the merits or otherwise of having your motorbike headlights on for visibility - one person said when they weren't on their bike they drove a bloody great big red fire-engine, with all headlights on, flashing blue lights and sirens going, and STILL people pulled out in front of him!
I can well believe that. I used to have a bright AA yellow 110 Defender and I used to get people pulling out on me!

Of course, making ourselves conspicuous only helps when the car drivers are looking our way, which all to often they're not!

I've only had my bikevis LEDs fitted since Sunday and I have noticed a definite difference in the reactions of car drivers, especially while filtering. That can only be a good thing! :thumbright:
 
#17 ·



I have Lots of reflective stickers on the bike including an ex-Police front mudguard great for riding after dark but I always wear the Hi-Viz waistcoat and have the 80W headlight on day and night. And if they fail to get you noticed I have a 139Db Stebel Magnum Horn fitted. That soon gets you noticed.

Found this article (from another forum)

In the UK motorcyclists are the most vulnerable road user group with a 40% higher fatality rate than car drivers.

The rate has risen in recent years, partly because the number of motorcycles on the road doubled between 1991 and 2001 with a particular increase in the number of riders returning to motorcycling after a long break.

The most common type of crash involving motorcyclists is other vehicles failing to give way and emerging into their path. Often these crashes occur even when the driver appears to be looking directly at the motorcycle.

Motorcyclists are often viewed as risk takers by car drivers and car drivers are often viewed as inattentive by motorcyclists. Looking to allocate blame does little to reduce risk whereas gaining an understanding of the issues affecting both drivers’ and motorcyclists’ and employing strategies to manage and reduce risk will have greater benefits.

So, why do these crashes occur? And more importantly, what can be done to reduce the likelihood of being involved in these types of crash?

Can drivers’ really look but not see motorcyclists?

The short answer would be ‘yes’.
Eye movement in the direction of the motorcycle does not mean that the driver actually notices it. Eye movement consists of two elements – fixation and saccades. Fixation occurs when the eye remains reasonably stable in one area and saccades are rapid jumps of the eye to new positions, during which time all visual input ceases. It would depend where a fixation point landed as to what is seen, as objects outside the immediate area are subject to less acuity and more difficult to identify. If a driver fixated on a larger vehicle following the motorcycle, which due to its size would appear the greater threat, there is a chance that the motorcycle could go undetected. This would be even more likely to happen if the driver were distracted, for example by talking on a mobile phone.

Research into this type of crash also found that drivers’ tend to choose smaller gaps when pulling out in front of motorcycles which could be partly due to viewing the motorcycle as less of a threat and also because the smaller the vehicle, the more difficult it is to judge a safe gap.

Vehicle windscreen (‘A’) pillars can also create blind spots, so while they may improve safety for people when they crash, they have the potential to make the crash more likely to occur in the first place. It has been suggested that current EU regulations regarding these pillars can result in the side profile of a car being excluded from view at a distance of 50 metres which could pose a significant risk to motorcyclists and other drivers’.


Does bright clothing and headlight use make motorcyclists safer?
There has been research that found wearing white helmets and hi-visibility clothing reduced the risk of crashing by 37%. But, it is the contrast which is more important than the colour. The more the motorcycle stands out from the background, the more likely it is to be seen.

It was initially suggested that using headlights during the daytime would grab driver’s attention as it was an unusual occurrence. However, an increasing number of vehicles now have headlights on during daylight hours which may mean that drivers’ won’t necessarily be drawn to a motorcycle purely because of headlight use.

Wearing hi-visibility clothing and using headlights during the day may well help to reduce risk but it shouldn’t be relied upon as a guarantee of being seen.

So, what can be done to reduce the risk?
¬Wearing protective clothing is important as it may help to reduce serious injury in the event of a crash but avoiding the crash all together would be the best strategy.

Being aware of the issues affecting drivers’ with regards to ‘look but failed to see’ factors and vehicle blind spots means that motorcyclists can take this into account and build it into their riding plan through anticipation. Riders can acknowledge the possibility that drivers’ may not have seen them and respond by reducing their speed or changing their position slightly on approach to junctions.

Further training to develop anticipatory skills and encourage positive attitude and risk management are far more beneficial than pure skills based training as this can actually increase the chances of having a crash due to over-confidence. While machine control is an important part of riding, it’s the ability to identify and manage risk effectively that will reduce the likelihood of being involved in a collision.

For further information on motorcycling issues and for details of Suffolk County Council education and training initiatives for riders of all ages please visit:
www.suffolkride.net


Sources:
Crundall, D., Clarke, D., Ward, P. and Bartle, C. (2008). ‘Car drivers’ skills and attitudes to motorcycle safety: A review’, Road Safety Report No. 85, Department for Transport.

Department for Transport (2008). ‘Road Accidents in Great Britain 2007: The Casualty Report’, Transport statistics.

Lin, M-R. And Kraus, J.F. (2009). ‘A review of risk factors and patterns of motorcycle injuries’, Accident Analysis and Prevention.

Mayhew, D. R. & Simpson, H. M. (2002). ‘The safety value of driver education and training’. Injury Prevention.

Wells,S., Mullin,B. and Norton, R. (2004). ‘Motorcycle rider conspicuity and crash related injury: case-control study’, British Medical Journal.
 
#21 ·
Further training to develop anticipatory skills and encourage positive attitude and risk management are far more beneficial than pure skills based training as this can actually increase the chances of having a crash due to over-confidence. While machine control is an important part of riding, it’s the ability to identify and manage risk effectively that will reduce the likelihood of being involved in a collision.
Personally I think this nails the whole issue. I'm not anti Hi-viz but I've had as much problem with other road users while wearing HV as without. You have to treat every other road user as a hazard and build a safety bubble around your bike, you can never 100% predict what they will do. I completed the IAM Skills for Life course last year and as a consequence I feel a lot happier in my ability to get myself noticed and avoid an accident. Now I just manage someone pulling out like a pot hole, it is a hazard, plot a course around it and move on. Best £139 I ever spent and made a lot of friends in the process.
 
#18 ·
Grendel
I agree with the article and I can confirm that although he eye sees the bike it cannot calculate it's approaching speed. If you assume that a ca is around 6 ft wide the it will fill in more of the retina and the brain can triangulate it's increasing size change as it approaches. Bikes being much narrower cannot be calculated. Add to this that the average speed of a bike is 'usually' higher than a car it isn't too surprising cages pull out.
Adding another set of lights to make a triangular shape (lower on crashbars say) help to widen the bike and make it much easier to calculate it's speed.
Dayglo really does help - it is yellow because the eye is most sensitive to this frequency of light and dayglo reflects more light than it's surrounding objects - making it stand out. Interestingly when there is ample light around the benefit of yellow/green dayglo diminishes. Summer sunlight has loads of blue in it and it has been suggested that in this light orange would be best -(could go on fo ages as to why but don't go there)

Another point about dayglo jacket / bibs - they are of little use if you are close behind a car and wearing a black helmet in poor lighting. He car pulling out on you will not see much of the jacket u til the car infront has cleared and you suddenly become visible. This is partly why I chose the dayglo helmet.(which will probably give me brain cancer lol)

I did try to get a grant a year back to do research at Uni for visual cues needed to improve road safety but as it was going to only improve stats for a minority (bikes) they wouldn't help - still might do it on my own.

Ok ok you can wake up at the back now.. I have finished.
 
#19 ·
I've ridden with one of these for years mainly for the commute. Drivers do see me more and mover over to let me past even buggernaughts move over, they get an extra big thank you wave.

I bought mine, the full jacket sort, as I thought the long sleeves would show up better round the perimiters of the fairing and screen, from Arco.

Graeme
 
#22 ·
It also depends on what type of person you are...

If you believe the glass is half full, and generally think well of people, then you may have a hard time automatically riding defensively and assuming that all road users are utter morons and out to kill you. Of course, they are are not, but it is the assumption whilst riding that is important.

One day you will come across said moron. Invariably, you will not have time to react unless you are sufficiently prepared. I think being prepared unfortunatly assumes the worst of people, and possessing that frame of mind all the time whist riding.

I'd have though it easier to adopt this frame of mind if you are a grumpy, miserable sod, more difficult if you are happy-go-lucky, tree-hugging hippy. In exteremis, your survival or continuing to ride therefore depends on your inherent characteristics. Does this therefore mean that experienced bikers tend to be grumpy miserable sods at heart? Oh dear........
 
#23 ·
Good Point Oggy & DGRider

In a past employment I did have a course on defensive driving (trucks) .. and this has helped me .. also being shown IAM stuff by a member here has helped as well .. reading all the books etc. .
And may take the skills for life in the near future.



Peace MAN.. Hippy at heart .. Grumpy Git on the Bike / car ..

:)
 
#24 ·
I would like to complete the IAM but being over here I'm more used the wrong side of the road and would probably fail.
I ride very defensive and every one else is out of the clinic on day release I do use the recomendations by other IAM riders and have done a couple of road awareness courses over here as well as defensive driving (cars) and close protection driving (cars) all combined together I believe have helped keep me safe over the years. with the HiViz I ignore that I'm wearing it and never rely on it being seen


another tip that I have read is to deliberatly move in your lane from side to side on appraoch to a junction (not slalom just once or twice) and take command of the whole lane, moving from the right to left of your lane also increases the field of vision available to cars waiting to pull out from the right and vickyverky
 
#26 ·

another tip that I have read is to deliberatly move in your lane from side to side on appraoch to a junction (not slalom just once or twice) and take command of the whole lane, moving from the right to left of your lane also increases the field of vision available to cars waiting to pull out from the right and vickyverky
Agreed, a useful manouvre, but not always the safest and can worry following drivers!

Again, it is helping you to be seen.
 
#28 ·
I think the point Snaphappy was making was if you hold a steady course you are less likely to be seen by someone sat at a junction. If you move your bike across the road width the light / HV motion is more likely to be noticed and ideally you want to plot a course that keeps you as far from the car as possible.

Another tip I got during my IAM training was when you see a car approaching the junction on a side road you have two options 1. Accelerate so you have passed the junction before they get there or 2. Gently back off your speed so you can tell they have stopped and seen you before you get there. Not always possible, but works well where you have plenty of forward and wide vision.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Page 27 of the Official Highway code says it all. Along with the IAMs skill for life course i did 2 years ago. Id rather be "dayglow" than dead TBH. Apparently tests have proved hi viz does NOT let other vehicles see you any better, because the fact is, cage drivers dont think bike and are not looking for you. But if it stops only one vehicle coming out in front of you then it has worked, but of course you will never know, because the vehicle stopped.
 
#30 ·
But if it stops only one vehicle coming out in front of you then it has worked, but of course you will never know, because the vehicle stopped.
That is exactly how I feel about it. When I got knocked off last year I was wearing HiViz and had my headlight on, obviously didn't work then. :(

However I still wear it 'cos as you say, if it stops one person from pulling out or making some daft manouver in front of you then it has been worth it for sure.
 
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