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one of the lost boys
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Right I'm opening a can full of worms....again
just followed a link from Fac'book to the Ambulance Motorcycle Club with reference to an ICE card. instead of useful hints tips or even a huge reference to learning first aid...
it comes out with crap that scares most people into doing nothing and letting an injured person possibly suffocate.

The season is starting again when the power rangers and Sunday trippers are out and the incident quota is set to rise ...again.

The chances are we will see an injury on our travels,

learn how to deal with it and have the confidence to do something,

learn First Aid,
If I get off prematurely (and it has been known to happen) I want help and not bystanders saying DONT TOUCH THE INJURED RIDER!



 

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Premium Member
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Must say having done the "First Aid for Bikers" course a few years back plus the 4 day first aid course for work there is no way i would stand by or let anyone stop me from help a biker which is down.
Just got to use some common sense which coming from me might sound a bit strange:D:D
 

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Eat less ride faster
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147 Posts
I teach first aid and the question I always ask- is do you take a helmet off after an accident with an unconscious/bleeding rider.
i mostly get told people would leave a hemet on and wouldnt remove it.
Scary stuff if you ever needed CPR and someone wouldn't remove ya lid.
Cheers
 

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I've always thought that not moving the casualty is the best policy. Obviously I would check for conciousness first and if necessary check for a clear airway and breathing, sometimes not easy if the rider is wearing a full face helmet. It is a fact that more damage can be done by trying to remove a crash helmet or moving the casualty. It is also important to make the area safe to avoid further collisions. There was a good free hand out dvd not so long ago advising what to do if you were the first to arrive at the scene of an accident, where my copy went I'm not sure. I am not a trained first aider but wouldn't let someone perish if I had half a chance of avoiding it. Recently I had a Transit van go berserk right in front of me on the A47, into the ditch, couple of rolls etc. I was the only one to bother but as you approach you just do not know what you will find. Fortunately I found a slightly injured but very shook up chap who wanted to get on his way! I stopped him from doing this because I reasoned that as soon as he got on his legs they would give way. I persuaded him quite forcibly to stay sat in his seat till the ambulance people arrived. They took no chances, neck collar, fire guys took top off van and away he went. He called me a couple of days later and we had a nice chat, he wanted to know what had happened. It's not easy being put on the spot and some people (who are not cowardly) cannot cope in these situations and can only wait until competent assistance arrives.
 

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hedgerow specialist...
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1,398 Posts
I ssem to remember seeing some biker helmets with stickers saying..

"Dont remove in the case of a accident" or something like that.

My bellief is most people would help to the best of their ability, if only to offer comfort and a warm coat and "hand to hold":D till the Suitably trained people arrived.

I think the Nurses do a great job:thumbright: at accidents compared to the "Doctors" from the local surgery who make things worse, seen it first hand and hand to restrain them:(.

While I feel everyone should attend a first aid coarse after passing their test, sometimes its best left to th Pro`s and the Guardian Angles:angel2:..
 

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Premium Member
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I saw an incident back last summer with a rider down and a member of the public pulling the helmet off forcibly... the chin strap was still on though! FFS!
 

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I saw an incident back last summer with a rider down and a member of the public pulling the helmet off forcibly... the chin strap was still on though! FFS!
Think that is the main problem they are trying to prevent.
If you know how a helmet works then it should be possible to remove safely, they just don't want people yanking the thing off and doing damage.
 

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There used to be a bit of kit that was designed for helmet removal. It was a small inflatable bladder that you slid into the helmet above the wearers head. You then inflated it with a squezey bulb and as the bladder inflated the helmet was pushed off. No stress to the neck area.
My view re helmets is if they are breathing leave as is and monitor. If they are not breathing, or stop then priorities change. Not much point in leaving a helmet on and monitoring someone as they die!
 

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one of the lost boys
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Which brings me a step further, awareness

Instead of people scaremongering with "Dont touch the Injured Rider" how about some First Aid awareness, what to do, how to do it, when to do it.
In my previous job first aid was high on the list of training objectives, then when I moved on I was one of the firms First Aiders and H&S / Fire Reps. I haven't done a refresher for a quite a few years so that will get put right as soon as,
First Aid is taught over here as part of the compulsory tuition to get your Driving Licence so it will be easy for me to find and attend a course, hopefully I wont learn anything and more to the point I hope I never have to use it.

 

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one of the lost boys
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6,127 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I saw an incident back last summer with a rider down and a member of the public pulling the helmet off forcibly... the chin strap was still on though! FFS!
I hope someone intervened and helped, that's Joe Public's Ignorance of helmets, at least we know to look for anything that is marked red to find the release, regardless of make or design.
 

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I think the Nurses do a great job:thumbright: at accidents compared to the "Doctors" from the local surgery who make things worse, seen it first hand and hand to restrain them:(.
I was in a similar situation probably 20 years ago now. A doctor in a complete daydream drove through a red light and was t-boned at 30mph by the bike in front of me. Not content with that, the doctor then jumps out saying that he's a doctor and the first thing he tries to do is tug at the guy's helmet without loosening the strap! I gave him the option of either effing off and calling an ambulance or travelling in one. Thankfully he backed off and I went through the basic ABC without removing the chaps lid. He was dazed, but gradually became more alert and seemed comfortable so the lid removal was left for the two paramedics to supervise when they arrived a few minutes later. Of course, if the ABC had shown problems then lid removal would have been necessary but the doctor didn't even check first!
 

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SHW'MAE BUTT
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IT will be a good demonstration showing people how to remove helmets and looking after DRABCDE
 
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I may be stepping on peoples toes in replying to this thread so please don't be offended.

After reading with great interest the replies of this thread I took time to visit
The Ambulance Motorcycle Club's website, it appears they are promoting the CRASH Card which is an information card you put inside your helmet.

Which is a similar idea to the ICE System adopted for mobile phone users.

The CRASH Card is being promoted by the East of England Ambulance Service in conjunction with Essex Police Bike Safe & The Ambulance service Mororcycle Club.

Which you have to be a member of the Ambulance Service to join.

However, in my opinion I think using the quote "Don't touch the injured rider !" doesn't really get the right type of message across, after reading the replies of this membership.

I for one would assist & intervene & would most definately remove a riders helmet.........BUT it is a 2 person procedure to remove a riders helmet safely & correctly & have no problems in carrying out this procedure.

Yes, Danger - Response - Airway - Breathing - C-Spine - Circulation & Disability all play an vitally important role, but if your airway is compromised due to a helmet strap & you're not breathing, it's not good.

There appears to be a fear of litigation & the lack of practice of removing helmets, which is understandable & if more people were shown the correct way of removing a helmet safely after undoing the chin strap.

Asking questions to a conscious injured rider like "where does it hurt ?" would certainly help.

Therefore, I would be quite happy to assist & demonstrate this procedure to members if they were interested & to make them more confident should they come across a "rider down" situation.

Would anyone be interested in doing a helmet removal refresher session ?

I am a qualified Paramedic based in the North West, & a member of the British Superbike Medical Team, also covering different disciplines of Motorsport.
 

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The Angry Pasty Muncher
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6,170 Posts
Right I'm opening a can full of worms....again
just followed a link from Fac'book to the Ambulance Motorcycle Club with reference to an ICE card. instead of useful hints tips or even a huge reference to learning first aid...
it comes out with crap that scares most people into doing nothing and letting an injured person possibly suffocate.

The season is starting again when the power rangers and Sunday trippers are out and the incident quota is set to rise ...again.

The chances are we will see an injury on our travels,

learn how to deal with it and have the confidence to do something,

learn First Aid,
If I get off prematurely (and it has been known to happen) I want help and not bystanders saying DONT TOUCH THE INJURED RIDER!



I'm a St. Johns first aider at work, have been for several years now and i keep it upto date at work for two reasons and i have to reassessed every 3 years. Firstly if i do it through work it saves me £300, secondly i do alot of local racing and i am qualified to treat anywhere in any situation as long as i follow the protocol instructed by St. Johns Ambulance. Secondly if i treat anyone and they decide they want to sue me afterwards St.Johns ambulance will cover my costs and insurances to the cost of £10 million and fight my case as long as i follow there protocols. No case has ever won in court of law against a first aider to date in this country.

St.Johns also run specialist helmet and motorcycle related course, most is covered on the "First aider at work course" but helmet removal is taught on the motorcycles course and it is a 2 person procedure. End of the day if you see someone is dying you have got to do something no matter what the outcome
 

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one of the lost boys
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6,127 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Stubsie your not stepping on toes, I wanted to restart a topic that many don't speak of, the willing to help and having the knowledge to help. Bikers in general will always help others and have a knowledge. Its the Joe Public being sh!t scared to do anything in case of a law suit or just plain ignorance to first aid that grips me. Yes lid removal is a two man job BUT sometimes there is not a second person. Lid removal is taught here at very basic First aid level.
When I read lines in an "Ambulance" website warning Don't Touch the Rider I explode.
Sharri has along with others helped and shown first aid and first on scene at meets, thank you.

I'm off for a refresher if this post gets one other off to do a refresher then my ranting was not in vein
 
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