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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

Earlier this week, my nephew Sam purchased from a guy in West Midlands, what was my old Transalp 650 but after checking it over and it flying through the MOT, the bike stopped on the M1 on the way back to London from Shropshire. Flat battery and the AA guy who collected him, diagnosed a duff Reg/Rec. I asked for the advice of Phil here, and he though it was more likely to be a corroded wiring issue, and I passed on his ideas and thoughts.

Sam installed a new RR and a new battery yesterday, and I have just heard that it has stopped again on him, same issue of dead battery. I am unsure if the battery is fried, or just dead... I am gutted for him as its his first big bike and pushed his budget to the max. Not what he needed, when back to Uni next week... :(

I wanted to get the charging circuit tested with multimeter, but he was off before getting a chance to test things and i am in Shropshire ! Is there anyone within hailing distance of gu23 6pu who could help or recommend someone ASAP please??
 

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Agggh, sorry to hear of the continued tale of woe Steve.
Unless a duff RR has been fitted, it suggests a duff stator (unlikely) of the 3 yellow wire connector between stator & loom has melted, it's under the lh underseat panel behind the fusebox & cdi.

But obviously needs checking over properly, has he still got the old RR, theres probably nothing wrong with it.

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Discussion Starter #3
Agggh, sorry to hear of the continued tale of woe Steve.
Unless a duff RR has been fitted, it suggests a duff stator (unlikely) of the 3 yellow wire connector between stator & loom has melted, it's under the lh underseat panel behind the fusebox & cdi.

But obviously needs checking over properly, has he still got the old RR, theres probably nothing wrong with it.
Its a right PITA Phil, I am soooo sorry for the fella! I did emphasise the connector block to him, but as he is a novice (although not stupid) I cannot be sure what he looked at! It's tough if you do not have a circle of friends or family who can assist, close at hand!
 

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Phil, I don't suppose there is any chance you could grab a pic of the connector you refer to on your "new 'alp, and I can send him it, so I am sure he understands ;-)
 

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Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

I'm afraid I won't be near the bike for a few weeks Steve as it's in storage.

If the seat & lh panel are removed, there is a black plastic sheath housing several block connectors, the 3 way connector with yellow wires from the stator is in there, I can't recall if the cdi & fuse box need to be moved to gain access.

Any signs of overheating, or discoloration of the yellow insulation and it'll be best to chop the connector out & solder/insulate the wires. As a bodge/temporary fix, you (well he) could use a suitable chocolate block, any yellow to any yellow is fine. Having said that, unless the wires/block is a molten mess, it's unlikely to be the sole issue.

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Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

My late, lamented TA is currently buried at the back of the garage so I can't get at it to photograph, but Mr Haynes has a bit on the subject. The picture in the article isn't very clear but the connector appears to be easily found under the left-hand side panel, the three yellow wires being a giveaway!


Alternator test.jpg
 

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Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

Off topic, I thought that was written off Huw or did you buy it back off the insurance? I thought it had gone.
(You don't happen to have a centre stand for sale do you...?)


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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

Thanks Huw, I had forwarded this link to Sam... But now I've just remembered I probably had a digital scan of the Transalp Haynes manual.... 5 mins later BOOM! Located....

He has a multimeter on order now I believe. ;-) To be honest, I find a simple old analogue multimeter so useful and less likely than the digitals to have run out of battery, just when you need it most ...
 

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Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

Also as well as looking at dodgy corroded connectors check earths and battery terminals are clean and secure.
 

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Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

I believe my nephew is now watching this thread with interest.... :) He tried signing into xrv, but the auto-process barfed! Hopefully, he will be here soon.
 

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Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

Take the wiring direct from the R/R to the Battery with a 30 amp water proof fuseholder on the + line
Check the connector between the three yellows stator output and the R/R as it may be corroded and causing a lot of resistance.
If possible take the three yellow wires directly to the R/R.
The old output from the R/R should be slathered in Vaseline and taped off with self amalgamating tape.
If this is done I bet it would eliminate the electrical woes.
 

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Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

Take the wiring direct from the R/R to the Battery with a 30 amp water proof fuseholder on the + line
Check the connector between the three yellows stator output and the R/R as it may be corroded and causing a lot of resistance.
If possible take the three yellow wires directly to the R/R.
The old output from the R/R should be slathered in Vaseline and taped off with self amalgamating tape.
If this is done I bet it would eliminate the electrical woes.
CVheers. I have passed on these thoughts!

I spoke at length with Sam yesterday who is now back in Guildford. I got a bit more clarity on the case during our chat! :)

The 2nd stoppage en route from London to Guildford after the RR was replaced was not quite a fail as the AA charged the battery and got him home :thumbup: AA tech tested power to the RR. Nowt at battery. 30V coming out of the alternator which sounds OK to me??

However, Sam also told me had to wire the new RR into the loom, as the connection block for the new RR was not OEM. There is now some doubt that he may have got the live and neutral wires wired wrongly.... The diagram they had was unclear. I have suggested that he also check all the connections are crimped correctly with good contacts and then use a multimeter to check for himself what is happening. Anive, the former owner, has suggested simply swapping the +ve and -ve wires around.... safe??

I have suggested a diagnosis in this order:

Check Battery voltage.
Check Battery voltage with engine on.
Check output from alternator as per Haynes and ans online guide.
Check output directly off the RR (dare we disconnect the battery????)
Check output directly off the RR with battery in circuit.
 

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Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

This is a useful flowchart for help in diagnosing issues, if the R/R is at fault consider replacing it with a Mosfet type that run cooler and last a lot longer.
Late model bikes have them and they can be identified by the prefix FH before the model number 008, 010, 012, 020 etc
The plugs to make them weatherproof are available from Kojaycat, Eastern Beaver and others.
Its a beneficial mod and will help immensely in making the bike electrics reliable.

https://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf
 

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Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

So, the aa man has chopped the connector off the loom and used crimp connectors for a non oe rr but 'may' have connected the + & *- incorrectly? FFS....

As I said, the oe RRs and charging system on a whole seem very reliable on the 650.
I wouldn't go looking for swapping for a mosfet or anything yet. I feel he may now need proper help finding the root cause of the problems and getting it back to stock before complicating things with home brewed modifications.

* I doubt the bike would run for any length of time, never mind get him home if the AA man had got the + & - mixed up from the RR & would probably instantly blow the main 30A fuse at the starter relay.

Edit, has he checked the 3p 3 x yellow wire connector yet?

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Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

I disagree with the reliability of Honda electrical systems, they seem to be the achilles heel of otherwise exemplary bikes.
Taking the voltage from the R/R directly to the battery does away with the problematic feed circuit from the R/R to the electrical system.
It is easy to do, harms nothing, is reversible if necessary and will improve the system.
Honda electrics have long been a weak point with the R/R being a problem right up to the point where they changed to Mosfet.
Look how many batteries have been boiled by failed R/R units in Blackbirds, VFR's, Deauville's etc.
Its a big problem that can be addressed easily and cheaply.
There is a whole host of aftermarket suppliers that supply products to rectify what Honda didn't do correctly.
https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/R-R_Connectors/r-r_connectors.html
 

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Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

I was referring specifically to the 650 transalp when saying the charging system is generally trouble free.

The generally trouble free rr has been replaced yet it seem the problem remains so going off the info we have, I think it's fair to say the problem lies elsewhere.

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Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

While the fiinned R/R Honda upgraded most or their bikes was a wise move from the self-cooking earlier unfinned versions - a mosfet is still one more step above that.



I've got a slightly larger MOSFET R/R than OEM lined up to go on my 650TA but I'm struggling to find the space in the orginal slot.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

So, the aa man has chopped the connector off the loom and used crimp connectors for a non oe rr but 'may' have connected the + & *- incorrectly? FFS....

As I said, the oe RRs and charging system on a whole seem very reliable on the 650.
I wouldn't go looking for swapping for a mosfet or anything yet. I feel he may now need proper help finding the root cause of the problems and getting it back to stock before complicating things with home brewed modifications.

* I doubt the bike would run for any length of time, never mind get him home if the AA man had got the + & - mixed up from the RR & would probably instantly blow the main 30A fuse at the starter relay.

Edit, has he checked the 3p 3 x yellow wire connector yet?

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My fault for not being more clear, sorry. Nephew Sam did the rewiring, the AA guy just recharged the battery on the roadside... :rolleyes: Reassuring on the polarity issue, as he started to 2nd guess this I think, but I am sure that he took care on this point

I have reiterated to him the checking of connection block :)
 

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Re: Electrical charging issue - Help needed by novice in Guildford

I was referring specifically to the 650 transalp when saying the charging system is generally trouble free.

The generally trouble free rr has been replaced yet it seem the problem remains so going off the info we have, I think it's fair to say the problem lies elsewhere.

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Or possibly a faulty RR installation... He has rechecked his connections though I believe today. ;)
 
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