[Mr Blue]

Opening this post just to share the continuing story of my electrical issues, which became more visible after I had Joerg Hau build a voltindicator in my Tripmeter.
But first let me drop my chronicles of the previous weeks. Get some crisps and a Coke cause this gon take a while
31-3: OEM regulator dies on my way to work (fried connector) Had a new one installed which is supposed to be a Mosfet-type, so bigger/better/stronger. Right?
Collected my bike from mechanic a few days later and noticed within 5 minutes riding my rpm-gauge swings up and down in sync with indicator. Also when I switch off my headlights, the rpm-needle slowly but steadily goes beyond maximum(??)
Funny thing is, when headlights are in use, the rpm-meter acts normally. Didn't measure nothing at that point since bike just came from mechanic.
1-4: Sent my Tripmeter to Switserland for revision and have Joerg add a voltmeter to it.
5-4: Had someone add an extra ground-connection from - side of battery to back of dashboard because (as said) 'a bad ground could possibly cause the weird behaviour of the rpm-meter'. Also had my electrics checked and all connectors (contact)sprayed. Had to get the starter relay-connector renewed too as it got partly fried also, probably when regulator died.
All this solved nothing concerning the rpm-meter... At this time I also noticed my temp meter didn't work anymore but the cooling fan did.
8-4: Tripmeter returns from Switserland. Indicates high voltage right after installation. Measured 17 VOLTS!! at battery. When I switched on headlights at that point, voltage is lowering to around normal.
12-4: Replaced regulator with another (new) one from a different brand. Now voltages (measured @battery) are normal again, rpm-meter functions normal again too. \o/
The red undervoltage-light though still is glowing/burning when headlights and indicator are used.

Like the two other posts I found in this forum on this Voltmeter-subject, the red light (indicating undervoltage) is glowing/burning far more frequent than it's supposed to. Mind you, it shouldn't burn or glow at all under 12.8v
When I'm using headlights though (both are burning) and I rev the engine the red light gets brighter (50-60%), even more when rpm's increase towards 50000. When I switch on the indicator too, the red light goes really bright in the same rythm as the indicator blinks (?)
When headlights/indicator are NOT in use the red light is off \o/

I sent an video to Mr Hau showing the voltages measured at the battery (13.8-14.1 @30000rpm) aswell viewing the blinking undervoltage light when using headlights and indicators at the same time. His advice; Have your stator-coils checked for resistance or bad ground. The continuous glowing/burning red light could indicate a statorproblem.
My mechanic however says he can measure the loading capacity of the generator with the 3fases-wiring coming from it, and if that gives the right values the stator is fine. Also he disqualifies the voltmeter right away saying most of them are never right... (I think this one works properly btw)

My question is, will measuring the generator output say enough about the health of the stator? Will that diagnose correctly if the stator doesn't make a shortcircuit somewhere or otherwise have resistance or bad ground-issues? Or should I insist measuring the coils with stator disassembled from bike?
And what about the red undervoltage light burning when headlights an indicators are being used. Can there be some sort of voltage drop or leak in the dashboard area, which makes the red light burn? Can this be caused by a current leakage somewhere which is NOT noticable when measuring loadingvoltage at the battery? Tripmeter seems to work normally (no fading of LED screen indicating lower voltage)

 

[Wicky]

Had a similar problem that hit me one winter on my Firestorm - despite a healthy battery and known to be good R/R electrical output gradually fell off - so couldn't have heated grips on at the same time as the headlight then soon after not enough leccy juice to turn the bike over.

Thankfully I had a spare stator and found the old one had a couple or 3 burnt windings on the coil - not many but enough to cause a big deficit in output.

 

[Mr Blue]

Main thing that worries me is the decrease in voltage at battery to 13.8v, which is too low according to the manual. (headlights on, rpm's >40K)
I would expect the regulator to regulate that value to around 14.5v. Haven't got a clue if a faulty stator could cause this, but reading your story, the problem sounds similar indeed.

Also the voltmeter indicating less than 12.8 volts at the dashboard (triggering red light of voltindicator) has got me puzzled. What could possibly explain the difference with battery-measured values? Dunno..

Hope the problem will be made visible after some testing and not remain hidden behind that generator cover.

 

[Massive Lee]

I suggest to check grounds. If your bike is an RD07, there's one just beside the front ignition coil. The other known ground connection is on the starter motor.

You can easily test your stator at the 3-prong connector. No need to remove the stator from the cover unless you want to change it.

Lee

 

[ronsjc]

Wow, sounds exactly like my issue. I had my Tripmaster repaired by Joerg with the red and yellow lights added. I was getting a flickering red light from time to time, but the bike always started fine. Then the red light started staying on almost all the time. I checked the battery voltage, but it all seemed fine. This past week end I made the trip to the Back Country Discovery Routes Annual Fund Raiser and at the first gas stop the bike wouldn't start. I got a jump, turned the head lights off and the red light disappeared. Road the bike for 3 days with out an issue, but I stayed off the long routes off road routes just in case.
I assumed it was the voltage regulator. But, I'll start with the grounds. Sounds like the simplest to check first. Mr. Blue, let me know if you find a solution.

Thanks,
Ron

 

[Massive Lee]

Voltage at the battery is the ideal voltage you'll het on the bike. Then you start losing some of it along the wiring. I suspect a voltage drop between the battery and the front. This is why I suggest measuring voltage directly on the battery lead posts. Then on the two thick connectors. Perhaps there's oxydation between the posts and the connectors. Then, check the big ground from the battery to the starter motor. Access the bolt, unscrew it, remove the connector, sand, clean and grease it. Reinstall. keep on measuring voltage on a few 12v + on the front of the bike.

Lee

 

[Mr Blue]

Finally had some spare time to follow instructions in previous post. Wasn't able to reach/ loosen the connection to the starter-motor though. Ground connection to frame on left hand side (behind ignition coil) didn't show any corrosion whatsoever.
Next step is to measure some 12v connections at the front since a voltage drop in front area is exactly what I think is causing the problem (red voltageindicator-light glowing at higher revs) . How do I measure these 12v + points? Red pin from multimeter to a (green?) 12v + wire, and black pin from multimeter to where?? Engine-case? Negative terminal of battery?

First of all I have to check what causes the right headlight to not burning like it should. Terminals in connector might not be tight enough. Would be something when this solves the suspected bad ground problem but I'm not cheering yet.

Edit; Managed tot get one of the terminals from the connector. Squeezed it somewhat tighter and solved the weak burning headlight. Did nót solve the undervoltage problem yet. All 3 wires going to the connector appear to be black? Not colored like in this color chart

 

[AndyLong]

With the exception of headlights and starter there is little to cause a voltsdrop unless your connections are all but broken. This can happen due to corrosion, esp on connections to the frame which are copper to steel. I would encourage you to add a copper earth wire to connect the earth points together. Earth =0v incase the terminology confuses.

I would suggest you measure between the positives and record the voltsdrop to find the wires affected are trace back from there. A lack of earth continuity likewise won't raise the voltage on the positive side as if you have 12v to start with that's all you will get. You will see a drop. Measure on low range like 2v.
You will find that high voltages are the fault of the regulator not the stator nor the earthing.

 

[AndyLong]

13.8v is ok if it is under load.

 

[ronsjc]

Voltage at the battery is the ideal voltage you'll het on the bike. Then you start losing some of it along the wiring. I suspect a voltage drop between the battery and the front. This is why I suggest measuring voltage directly on the battery lead posts. Then on the two thick connectors. Perhaps there's oxydation between the posts and the connectors. Then, check the big ground from the battery to the starter motor. Access the bolt, unscrew it, remove the connector, sand, clean and grease it. Reinstall. keep on measuring voltage on a few 12v + on the front of the bike.

Lee

I checked my grounds, a bit corroded but, not bad cleaned them but I still have a charging issue. I'm not great with a Volt meter but, it's indicating the Ohms are good to the stater, but looks like the issue is with the regulator. Is there a way to check the actual voltage output of the stater through the 3 yellow wires that go to the regulator with the bike running? I could only see a test of the ohms.
Thanks,
Ron

 

[Massive Lee]

I checked my grounds, a bit corroded but, not bad cleaned them but I still have a charging issue. I'm not great with a Volt meter but, it's indicating the Ohms are good to the stater, but looks like the issue is with the regulator. Is there a way to check the actual voltage output of the stater through the 3 yellow wires that go to the regulator with the bike running? I could only see a test of the ohms.
Thanks,
Ron

Well. If your problem is now a charging issue, start checking if the three wire connector hasn't melted. That's the one that connects the three yellow wires to the regulator.
How many volts at he battery do you read at idle with no headlights? With headlights? Then at 3000RPM with headlights?

BTW Stator is checked by measuring resistance. Not voltage.

 

[foz1969]

Opening this post just to share the continuing story of my electrical issues, which became more visible after I had Joerg Hau build a volt indicator in my Trip-meter.
But first let me drop my chronicles of the previous weeks. Get some crisps and a Coke cause this gon take a while
31-3: OEM regulator dies on my way to work (fried connector) Had a new one installed which is supposed to be a Mosfet-type, so bigger/better/stronger. Right?


when you say "new " reg/rec, who supplied them? 20$ Chinese are available (I have 1 as a spare), or from folk like easternbeaver, Jason? ebay? & others who have been encouraging the mosfet adaption for quite some time. both my twins have 2nd hand "originals?" from a variety of older bikes, listed on threads. Point asking....are the R/R's from a trusted source, did they opt for the recent $20 Chinese version. btw i tested the spare for a couple of days, no prob's. for those who know how simple that is... Plug & play.

 

[ronsjc]

Well. If your problem is now a charging issue, start checking if the three wire connector hasn't melted. That's the one that connects the three yellow wires to the regulator.
How many volts at he battery do you read at idle with no headlights? With headlights? Then at 3000RPM with headlights?

BTW Stator is checked by measuring resistance. Not voltage.

After some checking I was convinced my issue was the regulator so I finally got a new on shipped and installed. I'm getting right 13.8 volts across the battery with the headlights off and about 13.6 with them on at 5K rpm. The numbers don't change much between 2-5K rpm. Interestingly it actually decreases a bit from about 2-4K RPM then climbs back up to 13.8 at about 5K. I checked all my connections and they seem good. The one exception is just a bit of rust at the ground connection at the starter. Not on the post, but the little washers between the post and the body of the starter. Really hard to get in there to remove it, but I guess I should try.
Any other ideas?

Thanks all.

Ron

 

[Massive Lee]

Well. It seems you are now running fine. ;-)

 

[ronsjc]

Well. It seems you are now running fine. ;-)

Actually the Haynes manual says I should be generating between 14 and 15 volts at 5K RPM and I had my Tripmaster repaired by Jorg and he installed the LEDs to monitor the voltage and with the headlights on the red low voltage indicator light is on constantly. I turn the head lights off and the red indicator LED goes off. Is Haynes wrong on the voltage measurement?

Thanks,
Ron

 

[Massive Lee]

13,8 volts is just fine. That's what I get too.

 

[ronsjc]

13,8 volts is just fine. That's what I get too.

Feeling better already! Thanks. I must have a bad connection between the tripmaster and the battery that's causing the red LED to stay lit.

Ron

 

[Jakethepeg007]

I had some corroded connectors to my tripmaster, on both sides of the multiplug, check security and cleanliness of all the wires and spade connectors on both sides of the multiplugs behind your fairing screen

cheers

JTP

 

[Massive Lee]

Because 13,8v can be read at the battery doesn't mean that 13,8v gets to the front of the bike. Measure voltage on a front positive wire. It should read only a tad lower than directly on the battery. If there's a major voltage drop, then clean all connections.

 

[ronsjc]

Because 13,8v can be read at the battery doesn't mean that 13,8v gets to the front of the bike. Measure voltage on a front positive wire. It should read only a tad lower than directly on the battery. If there's a major voltage drop, then clean all connections.

Seems all is well on the charging end. I measured the voltage at the battery (bike had been sitting awhile) 13.3. Took the bike on about a 10 min ride with my lights on (red light stayed on at the trip master). Got home and checked the volts at the battery and I was at 13.5. So it's charging. Interestingly, when riding the bike, if I backed off the throttle the red light indicating low voltage on the trip master went out. As soon as I throttled back up, it came on.

I've ordered an voltmeter with a digital read out to connect directly to the battery terminals to mount on the bike so I can keep a better eye on things.

Thanks for all your assistance!
Ron