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SHW'MAE BUTT
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3,270 Posts
Couldnt stomach reading the full story but from what i did read i'd have no trouble in picking this evil slag up and throwing her into a wall.
Ditto

Craig even my daughter read this and thought it was sick.
As the white monks in Black Adder would say "she needs a red hot poker up her arse"
 

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Ooh Aah Cantona!
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177 Posts
Assuming the cow serves full term (which she won't) she will only be 46 when she gets out. I am 47 and like to think I've got a long time left and lots to look forward to. I haven't beaten any of my children to death so is it right that when she comes out she will have as much time left to look forward to as I have???
We've got serious problems in this country and unless we realise that crimes deserve severe punishment were off to hell in a hand cart as there will be no point in being honest and law abiding in a society that rewards or doesn't adequately punish filth like this.
Bring in adequate deterents to crime and an incentive to have kids when you can look after them rather than have them and expect other to fund it, we have tried being lenient and tolerant but it isn't working.
 

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Premium Member
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7,170 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Maybe I have a warped or extreme opinion on this, or maybe I'm just as sick as they are, BUT... do sub-human types like this deserve a place on our crowded earth? Should they EVER be allowed to consider having another child? I'd say no to both, and if I could be 100% convinced they were guilty, happily swing the axe, pull the lever, flick the switch, or administer the lethal injection.

Sheer evil, and may every other woman in the prison IT goes to, know of IT'S horrific crime, and treat IT with the "respect" (??!!) IT deserves.


:(
 

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geriatric
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2,474 Posts
The nice lady's in whatever institution she is homed in will give her a warm welcome, kiddy fiddlers and killers get the same treatment and well deserve what they get.
 

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Ooh Aah Cantona!
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177 Posts
Be carefull you'll get the bleeding hearts going who'll make the majority feel bad!!
 

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12,768 Posts
She may only have 16 years to serve but they will be hell as even hardened criminals hate violent crimes against children.
 

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Well people have said it before and i might as well say it again, BRING BACK HANGING.

It served it purpose before, it would serve its purpose again.

Thats me done, i'll say no more.
 

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Tropical Member
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Awful woman, WTF is going on in Britain?:confused::(
 

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307 Posts
I know this will infuriate and it is not my intention.

I was deeply saddened by every word I read in the original article. It is inexcusable that that or any child should suffer such abuse.

However if there is no attempt to understand the inexplicable how do we have any chance of making change? Child abuse in not new. It is not Britain today. It is not society today. It is what we as human beings on far too many occasions do to each other. If we argue that the person who does this is sub-human and should be treated the same way or wiped out I truly fear that we hold the door wide open for the same thing to happen to the next child.

I do not for a moment means that that is the aim of anyone who posted with genuine horror and fury on this theread. I believe that you hate that this happened and wish every child would be protected against such brutality. But I also believe that the first step towards doing this is admitting that the potential is in any or all of us and it is in understanding why thankfully most of us would never act in such a way that we can try to understand why some make such horrific other decisions, be they systematic or in a flash of fear or fury or both. Understanding is not the same as excusing.

Making the people who do this "other" relinquishes rather than takes hold of our responsibilityy to protect children more effectively. It makes us drop our guard against the very real possibility that real peolple, who sit next to us on the bus, who live on our street, who eat with us on our lunch break, will do the same thing and not simply the animals who are unlike the rest of us. It is safe to imagine they are different. It is terrifying to imagine we are not. Research has estimated that approximatly 16 children die as a result of abuse or neglect every month - are we going to beat or kill every one those responsible? I would then have to ask what is our society? When I see a parent smack a child in punishment for hitting his little brother or sister my heart breaks. How can that child learn to do anything differently? How is beating the mother who beats any different?

I work with people who have been abused and who struggle with the after effects. Fortunately I have only very infrequently been faced with the level of horror described in the article. I believe I do them a disservice if I as a professional and member of society make no attempt to understand. I do them a disservice if I do not demand that as a society we fight for all we are worth to ensure that we treat others better. As a society we stand above it, not by claiming to be more human but by behaving in that way and struggling to achieve an understanding that this mother so desperately failed to show her innocent and helpless child.
 

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Premium Member
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7,170 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I think you're right on a lot of what you say Doc, but...

When the next innocent child gets murdered, do we just say "sorry, we don't understand why the parent did it just yet"?

There is right, and there is wrong, and we all know the difference.

There is responsibility, and there is irresponsibility, and we all know the difference.

There is care, and there is neglect, and we all know the difference.

There is love, and there is indifference, and we all know what that is.

There are those that plan, love, and cherish their kids, and there is a minority that look at a child at a by-product, or a means to an end.


It sickens me every time I hear another story about some poor kid being killed in appalling circumstances.


You're right it's not new, so surely it proves that everything we're currently doing doesn't work?


The Chinese have an excellent way of dealing with those that murder innocent children. :mad:
 

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You are right Bob - understanding is not enough, not a means of excusing. However it does engage us in the question rather than relinquishing that responsibility. It is a start not an end point.

I have no argument against someone who behaves in such a way being removed from society in order to protect, to punish and potentially to rehabilitate. The last is impossible without understanding, and in some cases sadly even with.

The question of what to do doesn't start at this point in the story. We have already tragically failed by then. It starts years and lifetimes earlier when the message that the powerful can overwhelm the smaller and weaker by any means they wish to employ is communicated. When society says it is someone else's problem and we won't do anything to stop it. When we don't help those who are being taught these lessons only to repeat them later.

I can't say I share your confidence in knowing the difference between any of the categories you describe. They are immensely complicated and will look different on so many occasions.

Nor do I agee nothing has changed. Children are no longer sent down mines - at least in this country. Parents are no longer free to hit their children as a routine means of discipline. Children have services like Childline, which shouts from the rooftops that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable and seeks to be there to do something about it when it happens. None of this is enough. That's why I think we must all see it as our problem not someone else's.
 

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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter #18
I neither think I'm right or you're wrong, we just have different ways of seeing a solution.

I do understand that these people have somewhere along the line been failed, and that they can then go on to fail in the same way with the same behaviour. I don't believe WE have failed them however, and think that responsibility lays with the person or people who should have been in a position to care and shape their life and demonstrate what is right, wrong and acceptable to society.

Most normal people know what is unacceptable.

Can they be rehabilitated? I don't honestly know. If I was ever lucky enough to have kids though, I wouldn't chance letting a rehabilitated child murderer within inches of my kids.

Unfortunately, the short sharp solution is the most attractive in my mind.



:(
 

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Under the rules we recognise now, I was abused as a child.
I do not believe I was but society now says that the way I was raised is child abuse.
There is a very thin line between right and wrong and the problems tend to arise from the Media.
We are bombarded with films and programs which depict violence, to such an extent that the line between fiction and real become blurred.
Add to that the garbage which we eat, and the pollutants in the air, our brains do not develop properly, so some people tend to not identify where that line actually is and they cross it.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Lets be careful and try not to cross the line.
 

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Registered
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The Chinese have an excellent way of dealing with those that murder innocent children. :mad:
Considering the current spate of nutters attacking and killing children in China at the moment, maybe that's not such a good example to use.
 
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