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Discussion Starter #1
So, the clocks have gone back and the evenings are getting darker.

Que time for figuring out how I'm going to light the garage so I can at least get the bike in and out without loosing my gloves.

I've been using a big rechargeable spot light, reflecting it off the low ceiling, as it and the walls are white. Works okay for a while but as it gets cold the charge lasts less and less. Also, after 2 years it's starting loose it's life with seasonal use.

I've only got the booster battery emergency lights which are 2 Eco bulb things. I can see the floor at least.

What's your best ideas given it's not possible to wire it as it's detached and has a shared tarmac drive between house and garage.

Normal size brick garage, walls and plaster board ceiling all painted white. Not much shelving on sides as most junk is at back.

Help!


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So, the clocks have gone back and the evenings are getting darker.

Que time for figuring out how I'm going to light the garage so I can at least get the bike in and out without loosing my gloves.

I've been using a big rechargeable spot light, reflecting it off the low ceiling, as it and the walls are white. Works okay for a while but as it gets cold the charge lasts less and less. Also, after 2 years it's starting loose it's life with seasonal use.

I've only got the booster battery emergency lights which are 2 Eco bulb things. I can see the floor at least.

What's your best ideas given it's not possible to wire it as it's detached and has a shared tarmac drive between house and garage.

Normal size brick garage, walls and plaster board ceiling all painted white. Not much shelving on sides as most junk is at back.

Help!


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cant you supply power from ya house out to garage via catenery wire ? how far apart are they ? cheers ade
 

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Discussion Starter #4
cant you supply power from ya house out to garage via catenery wire ? how far apart are they ? cheers ade
Via what? Cat nip wire?

Closest point between the two buildings is about 3m and I do have a spare point as the electric fire had been taken out (sits in the garage, just like home!). This has its own high amp fuse too so i was considering it. It's just the laying the cable under the road that's the issue. Oh, and the price of armoured cable.

There are 4 other garages with cars coming and going and the area between the 2 buildings is a corner, ie the cars turn through this gap so any cable laid on the road will get a lot of twisting from car tyres.
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1. get an indestructable 4gang building site type extension lead with an overload cutout long enough to go from the house to the garage. its tough as old boots and your neighbours can drive over it all they want, bring it in and out when you want to work in the garage.
2. 12v caravan flouro tubes and a leisure battery, that will last forever before needing recharging, but wont if you start using it for power tools (if it will power them in the first place?)
3. will your neighbours let you have the drive for a day while you bolster out a small trench and sink in a cable? probably wont even be a whole day tarmac is soft as s##t. (and they can come and go anyway, the gap only needs to be an inch wide) get a bag of tarmac patch and jobs done, they'll be asking you to do theirs
 

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Via what? Cat nip wire?

Closest point between the two buildings is about 3m and I do have a spare point as the electric fire had been taken out (sits in the garage, just like home!). This has its own high amp fuse too so i was considering it. It's just the laying the cable under the road that's the issue. Oh, and the price of armoured cable.

There are 4 other garages with cars coming and going and the area between the 2 buildings is a corner, ie the cars turn through this gap so any cable laid on the road will get a lot of twisting from car tyres.
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if thats ya reply to a reasonable solution then you can stick yer power cable up yer a*&e !!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D happy frying !

oh and if you can spare the time, feel free to google catenary wire then reply. hate it when people come on here, ask for advice etc then instantly question your answer / suggestion. try and have some faith in what people are saying here !!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ,.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
if thats ya reply to a reasonable solution then you can stick yer power cable up yer a*&e !!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D happy frying !

oh and if you can spare the time, feel free to google catenary wire then reply. hate it when people come on here, ask for advice etc then instantly question your answer / suggestion. try and have some faith in what people are saying here !!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ,.
Jeez dude, take a chill pill!

Was a humorous reply not a dig!

I did already mention wiring not possible but open to ideas if I knew what this cat thing was. So I can google, yes. If you can reply then take the time to explain it a wee bit more please......don't ya hate it when people come on here asking for advice and people give responses they assume will be understood when if they knew what that thing was they'd probably not need to ask in the first place......lol

Try to have some patience and understanding when replying. There's a reason we ask.

And yes, I am having a laugh not a dig.


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Installation of overhead cables to out houses and garages needs to be done correctly, this is achieved by means of a catenary wire with a cable fastened to it.
In other countries catenary wires are something you see every day, especially in the U.S.A, they use a lot of catenary cables for everything from getting the supply into their homes, telephone cables to cable TV. However we in the UK don't really use them at all apart from garages and out houses.
What is a catenary wire? well its basically a length of steel wire anchored at each end and tightened using a turnbuckle, a Steel wire armoured cable is then fixed to the steel wire and terminated at each end.
A typical kit is shown below, this kit is available off of the internet and can be sourced at http://www.attock.net/netpro/catenarywirekit.htm.

 

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My Blue Beast
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Jeez dude, take a chill pill!

Was a humorous reply not a dig!

I did already mention wiring not possible but open to ideas if I knew what this cat thing was. So I can google, yes. If you can reply then take the time to explain it a wee bit more please......don't ya hate it when people come on here asking for advice and people give responses they assume will be understood when if they knew what that thing was they'd probably not need to ask in the first place......lol

Try to have some patience and understanding when replying. There's a reason we ask.

And yes, I am having a laugh not a dig.


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will leave for someone obviously more knowledgeable and calmer to explain ! my only suggestion is get someone in who does know what they`re doing !!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
1. get an indestructable 4gang building site type extension lead with an overload cutout long enough to go from the house to the garage. its tough as old boots and your neighbours can drive over it all they want, bring it in and out when you want to work in the garage.

Currently do this when using power tools but a pain everynight after work.

2. 12v caravan flouro tubes and a leisure battery, that will last forever before needing recharging, but wont if you start using it for power tools (if it will power them in the first place)

Leisure battery. I take it they're different to normal, haven't come across them. Expensive? (calm down, I'm gonna google it, lol)
Nice idea, had ruled out car battery do will check this.

3. will your neighbours let you have the drive for a day while you bolster out a small trench and sink in a cable? probably wont even be a whole day tarmac is soft as s##t. (and they can come and go anyway, the gap only needs to be an inch wide) get a bag of tarmac patch and jobs done, they'll be asking you to do theirs
Now this one I had as my main and preferred solution.

My issues/concerns being:
Pipes laying under the road I need to cross. Unlikely they'd need digging up but sods law says they do and I don't know about it, road get dug up and some eejit electrocuted by my wire. Waste piping only.

Tarmac patching starts to fall apart/causes a hole in the road which I have to pay to repair.

Cost of armoured cable which I'm assuming I'd have to use? And I'm tight.

Positive would be it's a strong amp fuse on the main box as it powered an electric fire. I reckon this would be good for power tools. Re-plumb to an outside breaker box, feed across road to another breaker on outer wall and plumb through to my garage via the neighbours who I will allow to also take lighting and a socket (all round nice bloke and biker).

Cheers!


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My Blue Beast
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Installation of overhead cables to out houses and garages needs to be done correctly, this is achieved by means of a catenary wire with a cable fastened to it.
In other countries catenary wires are something you see every day, especially in the U.S.A, they use a lot of catenary cables for everything from getting the supply into their homes, telephone cables to cable TV. However we in the UK don't really use them at all apart from garages and out houses.
What is a catenary wire? well its basically a length of steel wire anchored at each end and tightened using a turnbuckle, a Steel wire armoured cable is then fixed to the steel wire and terminated at each end.
A typical kit is shown below, this kit is available off of the internet and can be sourced at http://www.attock.net/netpro/catenarywirekit.htm.


thank you for that Alan.........oh and i do believe theres a min height restriction for them too !!:thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks to team Alan/Ade.

I though such a thing would be possible but as Ade mentions, there's probably a height issue and although my house is 2 storey, the garage is just one and it's a tight space.

I fear for the eejits that drive round here. I've seen a LutonBox van drivin round only to get stuck and unable to unload, followed by getting stuck after hitting the wall when reversing. It's a close as opposed to street and the garage area is off that so blind and people dont seem to check out the area before driving in. I fear they will not look up! Rather bury a line than go overhead.

Thanks for confirming the idea.


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all you answers should be here.



7.13.2 - Maximum span lengths and minimum heights
The required information is contained in {Table 7.8} and {Fig 7.21}. Four special points are worth noting here.
1. - in some locations where very tall traffic may be expected (eg. yacht marinas, or where tall cranes are moved) heights above ground must be increased,
2. - in agricultural situations, the lower heights of 3.5 m and 3.0 m are not permitted,
3. - where caravan pitches are fed, overhead cables must be at least 2 m outside the bounds of each pitch,
4. - overhead supplies to caravan pitches must have a minimum ground clearance of 6.0 m where there will be moving vehicles, and 3.5 m elsewhere.
Fig 7.21 - Overhead lines. Ground clearances shown are for places which are not accessible to vehicular traffic - see {Table 7.8}​
Table 7.8 - Maximum span and minimum height for
----------------- overhead wiring between buildings
Type of system​
Max. length
of span​
Minimum height above ground​
(m)​
At road crossings (m)​
Accessible to vehicles (m)​
Not accessible to vehicles (m)​
1​
No limit​
5.8​
5.2​
3.5​
2​
Consult manufacturer​
5.8​
5.2​
3.5​
3​
3​
5.8​
5.2​
3.5​
4​
30​
5.8​
5.2​
3.5​
5​
Consult manufacturer​
5.8​
5.2​
3.5​
6​
3​
5.8​
5.2​
3.0​
NB All ground clearances are for positions not accessible to vehicular traffic​


 

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Discussion Starter #15
How about something like this its strong enough to drive over and people cant trip.
New rubber wire Cable trip protector 1M length on eBay (end time 05-Nov-10 16:59:42 GMT)

It is like the stuff work men use to run temp traffic light cable across the road.;)
Thats indoor stuff...this is the stuff they use outdoors....bit expensive...

Lawson-HIS 1030022567 [CL] Type G Cable Protector Black (4.5Mtr roll) £225.00

I had thought of this too but again the issue was the price of the protector or the possible damage to the cable if just laid on the road surface.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks again Alan...I havent got the minimum height never mind the amount needed for passible by vehicles.

Its going to be under the ground or leisure battery by the looks of it.

Leisure batteries do seem to have a limited use though, I can run a set of 4 8w lights for 30hrs on a battery costing about £50 before having to recharge it.....now im not gonna assume Im right here, but you can just charge these off the mains right? Seen chargers, much like the bike battery ones, which are about £50 too....do I have to use these specifically?

Anyone know about the regulations for sinking a cable under the ground and crossing waste drains? Is there a min depth, do I have to mark it somehow, will the drain pipes cause an issue?

Thanks for your patience!
 

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Thats indoor stuff...this is the stuff they use outdoors....bit expensive...

Lawson-HIS 1030022567 [CL] Type G Cable Protector Black (4.5Mtr roll) £225.00
How much??? I've recently laid 25m of armoured 3 core. That cost under £50 for the reel (although digging the trench to 450mm deep took a while :rolleyes: ). Don't worry about anyone digging it up. If it's done right it's way down and you put warning tape over it so they get to the tape well before they get to the cable. If you dig through a domestic armoured cable, it should pop the RCD rather than killing someone - as long as you're running an RCD on the circuit at the house end.
 

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you need to move to a place with a garage with lektric. simples
 

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How much??? I've recently laid 25m of armoured 3 core. That cost under £50 for the reel (although digging the trench to 450mm deep took a while :rolleyes: ). Don't worry about anyone digging it up. If it's done right it's way down and you put warning tape over it so they get to the tape well before they get to the cable. If you dig through a domestic armoured cable, it should pop the RCD rather than killing someone - as long as you're running an RCD on the circuit at the house end.
That £225 is for the stuff that allows you to drive over it, not armoured cable....still bloody expensive though.

So is 450mm the standard depth for sinking elec cables? If I did a botch job of only 300mm or less with warning tape half way above, finished by diy tarmac patch, would that be sound enough for a private driveway?

Would attach to an rcd in a socket to replace the existing fuse socket for the elec fire. Just need a sparky to make the connection so the house insurance isnt invalid. I can do the ground work first though.

Im thinking of this now as the battery option doesnt seem much better overall. Dont like the idea of having to recharge the battery every month though this is a quickfix, it just seems like the same cost for a temporary fix.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
you need to move to a place with a garage with lektric. simples
Dont talk...There is a walkway between my garden and the closest garage which belongs to a neighbour, mines furthest away...stupid planning that was. Couldve moved the garages closer to my garden so that one was attached to my property and the walkway went down the back of the others.

I have thought about offering him a swap as he only rents the place....not sure how to go about it legally though. If I did, a simple garden armoured cable would be the job.
 
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