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Discussion Starter #1
I have a little problem.... as I'm riding along my Alp seems to have developed a intermitant cut out fault...
Basically the rev counter drops to zero and just bounces around on the stop, even though the engine is still revving away... except for if you let the revs drop and then it just dies. You can start it again but you need to have the throttle almost fully open, and then keep the throttle revving or it dies again. Whilst it is in this state it can still be ridden but requires lots of throttle, but gives almost no power eg. had it moving in third with almost full throttle and only doing 30mph.

BUT.... when you leave it to stand for approx 5-10 mins, it will generally seem to reset itself, and rides normally again... untill it decides to throw a wobbler again, which could be either right away or several miles down the road....

Has anyone got any suggestions or had a simular problem...????

One other slight bit of info is that it seems that the rear cylinder might have a piston ring gone, as from cold is throwing out alot of blue/white smoke... and when initially checked the plugs the front cylinder were both a nice grey/tan colour... but the rear ones were a bit confusing... the awkward one from the top was fairly grey coloured, but the side one was black and covered in oil.
Since this I have cleaned up all the plugs, and took it for little ride (well as much as it would allow without playing up...), then took the plugs out again, and all are still dry...:confused::confused::confused:

So I'm now completely confused, and don't know which way to go...

Help me please someone....

Titch
 

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I'm thinking CDI.

Don't know why, but that presumably would explain why it is both cylinders rather than just one. Does the rev counter run off the CDI or crank? I dunno.

The more I think about it, the more I think this post is less than useful...

Does it feel like fuel starvation, ie gradual loss of power, or a sudden effect like a broken contact?
 

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What model of Alp is it. The early ones had two CDIs, one for each cylinder I think, one controls the revcounter as well and gets squashed by the seat.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
What model of Alp is it. The early ones had two CDIs, one for each cylinder I think, one controls the revcounter as well and gets squashed by the seat.
Mines an '88 V-H model, with two CDI's, located under the seat behind the airbox side by side.
There is two seta of wiring coming from the engine... one for the oil and neutral switch, and another that goes to a plug connected to the regulator. I have checked all the connections on everything including the CDI connections and every connection I could find, and all seem to be fine.. no loose wires or connections that I can find.

And regards to fuel starvation.. have checked the flow from the tap and thats fine... and the power loss is sudden, as in you can be riding along then suddenly the revs counter drops (even with the engine still ticking away...), and alomost all power seems to dissapear.
 

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Starting to sound more and more like the CDI.

Either way, I would stop riding it: sounds dangerous, TBH... Imagine it plays up mid-overtake!
 

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:cool:

Titch,

On the early Alps like yours 88 and mine 89 with the two CDI units there was a problem of the seat pushing down on the top of the units and damaging the connectors and head of the units.
A lot of people like myself modified the units by repositioning them either lower down or horizontal their was even a Honda mounting bracket you could purchase [at that time] to reposition them which I would suggest you do, hopefully there is no permanent damage to the CDI's,
and like Yen & Warthog say one does operate the rev counter.
I hope this is of some help.

BIG D
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
To check if it is the CDIs, you can change them over. If the rev counter then works fine but the bike still misbehaves then you have found the problem.
When you say swap the over do you mean just swap the wires round from each of mine to the other way around... or get someone elses CDI's and try those...????


Oh yeh... just another point... this problem has only started since putting in the replacment engine... which seems to have leaking piston rings on the rear cylinder.... now don't know how far advanced the electrics were back in the '88 Alps, in that did they have crank sensors etc which measure/tell the CDI when to fire which piston... and could oil leaking through into the combustion chamber effect this...???
 

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When you say swap the over do you mean just swap the wires round from each of mine to the other way around... or get someone elses CDI's and try those...????

Sorry, should have been more explicit. I meant physically change over your two CDIs. The rev-counter is supplied by only one of the CDIs, if you swap them over and the rev-counter works properly but the bike still does not run right, then you have a dying CDI.



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From previous posts on this subject, I believe the csi which powers the rear cylinder also powers the rev counter.
Taking this into account I would be inclined to suspect the CDI. Move them both before they get damaged beyond repair.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Sorry, should have been more explicit. I meant physically change over your two CDIs. The rev-counter is supplied by only one of the CDIs, if you swap them over and the rev-counter works properly but the bike still does not run right, then you have a dying CDI.
AAhhh got it.... will try that in the mornin... Just looked on old Ebay as on last lookin always saw CDI's available on there... and guess what... sod's law... now there's none listed.... and looked at Silvers, and they are £111 each, and have to be ordered in.... bummer....

Will try the check you suggested first though.... before I go dishing out my pennies on some new ones...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Right then.... here we go again.... Help please.....

Tried all the other suggestions and went down the lines of the CDI's as on research found alot of people who had the same or simular problem, and they all pointed to the CDI being faulty... primarily the left hand one, as this is the one which controls the rev counter.

I bought my-self 2 new CDI's and also got the CDI cousion from a '94 Alp, as this is when Honda changed the design to lie the CDI's down to stop the seat from resting on the top of them, which is reportedly what causes the problem with them failing.
Firstly the bike seemed to run fine when left on tickover, and then heavy revving while still in neutral... BUT, took it for a little ride on the way to work this morning, and after about 2 miles, the same problem again....Boll**ks...!!!! Limped home with the bike, and put it back in the back yard and keft it there (as was now late for work, so just jumped on my iccle Ninja and shot off to work...).

Before I start dismantleing everything again, and stripping back all the wiring, can anyone else suggest anything specifically to look for....???

Cheers

Titch.
 

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Sorry to hear about your ongoing problem, still sounds like its electrical could it be something as simple as a broken wire making and breaking, or even a bare wire earthing out but not blowing fuses, the latter sounds a bit daft but when you're stuck look at anything, hope you get it sorted alot of us have had that s*** feeling when you're struggling to sort something.

Chris
 

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If it is running for a short time without problems and it only dies after it gets hot.
1. CDI's overheating.
2. Coils overheating or HT lead breaking down.
3. Plugs overheating and failing.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have checked all the wiring and connections on the bike, and nothing appears loose or damaged..... and even gave them a really good wiggling around to see if anything would come loose, and still nothing. So was thinking that on the original engine I had no problems, and all I have done is swapped the engine for new one and all of a sudden the problem has appeared, so the problem must have come with the replacment engine. I have been studying my Haynes manual to see if i could find anything that it might be....And.... the only part of the ignition system that is directly connected with the engine is the Pulse generator coils which directly control the CDI's. The manual does tell you how to test the coils for resistance to see if they are faulty, which I haven't had chance to do yet, but do people think this might be the cause of my problem:confused: cos was thinking that as I still have my old block, then i can just swap out the coils out of the old one (as they seemed to work fine...) and put them into the replacement one...
 

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I have checked all the wiring and connections on the bike, and nothing appears loose or damaged..... and even gave them a really good wiggling around to see if anything would come loose, and still nothing. So was thinking that on the original engine I had no problems, and all I have done is swapped the engine for new one and all of a sudden the problem has appeared, so the problem must have come with the replacment engine. I have been studying my Haynes manual to see if i could find anything that it might be....And.... the only part of the ignition system that is directly connected with the engine is the Pulse generator coils which directly control the CDI's. The manual does tell you how to test the coils for resistance to see if they are faulty, which I haven't had chance to do yet, but do people think this might be the cause of my problem:confused: cos was thinking that as I still have my old block, then i can just swap out the coils out of the old one (as they seemed to work fine...) and put them into the replacement one...
If the problem only started with the new lump then I would do as you plan and swap the pulse coils, if that cures the problem alls well if not you have lots of spares .
 

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Do it and hope it works after all its your time you are laying out and not cash, best of luck with it :thumbup:

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Right then, confirmed it...... looked at the connection for the Pulse Generator coils under the tank, and the plug was all green and tattie looking... so the plug on the coils from my old block was near perfect so cut the plugs off and did a swap, and did the test as per the Haynes manual and seemed fine at first.... untill I took it for a test ride, and the bugger played up again...:mad::mad: got two miles from home and rev counter dropped off and power dropped off again... so limped it home, and stright away put the meter accross the terminals and got a perfect reading from the front coil, but the rear gave absolutely nothing...:(:(
So now i've taken the coils about of my old block, and now just got to get the clutch cover off my replacement block and do the swap, then fingers crossed:thumb::thumb:, then hopefullly if it works won't have to spend a further £100 on new coils from Mr Honda,although may have spent £140 on new CDI's that I didn't need...:(:(... well, at least I have spares now..;);)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Wooooo Hoooooo..... finally managed to get some time (and semi decent weather over the w/end:toothy2:) to get the pulse coils swapped over, and at last, my Alp works again....:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
So now I have a spare pulse coil, as the one from the front cylinder was working ok... just the rear one that was knackered... and also a spare set of CDI's... although always good to have spares...;);)

Cheers for all the help and suggestions through this thread :thumbright::thumbright:
 
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