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Discussion Starter #1
Hello

May I ask for your patience before I begin !

I to own a Honda motorcycle - all be it it is a VFR 800 1998.

I was carrying out a web search for 'copper grease' and low and behold I picked up on a link in this forum (Transalp) about using copper grease on the front drive shaft splines to prevent the 'fretting' of the front sprocket teeth against the spline. A quick search showed that the damaging and in some cases the total distruction of these splines is not uncommon amonst you chaps. Well guess what, its not unheard of on the VFRs !!!

The splines on my bike have started to wear and at least one other owner of a VFR has reported in as having the same problem. His soloution was to use some locktite bearing fit to 'glue' the sprocket in place. My solution was to use a propritery 'liquid metal' in place of the locktite as I found the locktite did not last very long.

Well to cut a long story short - all was well for a few thousand miles but my sprocket came lose once agian, at least I could hear that it had come lose as the sproket jumps slightly against the retaining washer and bolt, as it rotates. So I have just spent some time applying the liquid metal again. But of course on seeing thread

http://www.xrv.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=23284&highlight=copper+grease

and reading suggestion by the The Pheasant
that applying copper grease is a means of preventing further micro welding am am oviously interested in hearing if any of you good folks have used this method and found it to be a workable soloution to the problem. I am clearly wondering if what I have done was necessary and that a good coating would do the trick.

thanks

Jonathan:p
 

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Sir FallofaLott
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5,060 Posts
A VFR :shock:

:protest::protest: Kill the interloper :protest::protest:

This is a local site for local people :protest:

:D:D:D

Welcome mate. Cant answer your technical question through lack of experience but someone will be along shortly than has had the experience Im sure.
 

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Top Cat
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They must've all gone to bed early!

Perhaps the title needs changing to tempt some of our technical experts?
 

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Complete Member
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You shouldn't need to use anything on the splined shaft, a drop of (thick) oil, grease or copper grease should keep it from rusting, there should be slight movement on the sprocket, it's not meant to be a tight fit, but if it's too loose it will accelerate wear of the splines, especially if the chain's a bit snatchy, in really bad cases the only option is to weld the sprocket on, or replace the output shaft (tricky).

Do a search on "output shaft" or "front sprocket" for more info, some members reckon that pattern sprockets make this worse, but the biggest cause as far as the long suspension travel Trailies is concerned is over-tightening the drive chain.

Loctite is wonderful stuff for re-fitting bearings where there is only a very tiny gap, I can imagine that it wouldn't last long on the much bigger clearance between sprocket and shaft. Liquid metal has been used with some degree of sucess, but you will need to keep re-applying it to get the most out of it.

Keeping the chain a bit loose and regularly lubed will help slow down the rate of wear.

p.s. you can't be a gatecrasher here because we don't have any gates and although this is a mainly Honda trailie bike forum there are allsorts here, some lucky barstewards with several bikes, different makes, different styles, pull up a chair and make yourself cosy, no-one will bother :thumbup:
 

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21st Century Schizoid Man
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Hello J and welcome :)

I think Fletch has a VFR so you're not alone here :thumbup:
 

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"call me lucky"
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At least its a Honda mate. At the moment we seem to be losing out to the BMW brigade and the KTM guys. :D:D:D:D:D
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: I am a gatecrasher on a Honda VFR :) Front Sprocket Question

Thanks for all of your kind responses. :thumbright: An all too frequent occurance, the migration to the BMW camp. Every other person I know who owns a bike has one.

I have tweaked the title a bit to reacj out to a wider audience:)

BTW, at the risk of being shot down in flames I do own and ride a GPZ 500 as well - for the daily commute !.

Thinking back, it was whilst on holiday that the 'clunking from the front' started. I suspect the wear came about due to a chain tensioned with no luggage and pillion on board (which I guess what the standard slack of 25mm setup allows for) and then adding the luggage and pillion.

It just seems strange that the splines should wear and not the inner teeth of the sprocket. It almost suggests that Honda have not used a hard enough wearing metal in this area although I am sure that they would never agree with this. (I wonder - has anybody actually contacted Honda about this)

You knwo you are welcome on the VFR forum !!!

Jonathan
 

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21st Century Schizoid Man
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Re: I am a gatecrasher on a Honda VFR :) Front Sprocket Question

...snip
Thinking back, it was whilst on holiday that the 'clunking from the front' started. I suspect the wear came about due to a chain tensioned with no luggage and pillion on board (which I guess what the standard slack of 25mm setup allows for) and then adding the luggage and pillion.
hat sounds like a likely reason/cause :)
It just seems strange that the splines should wear and not the inner teeth of the sprocket. It almost suggests that Honda have not used a hard enough wearing metal in this area although I am sure that they would never agree with this. ...snip
Jonathan
That would have been waaaaay better wouldn't it :blob: few quid v lots a dosh!
 

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Complete Member
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I suspect that you are correct and the shaft, although made out of pretty tough material is not hardened, this could cause embrittlement and lead to an inability to transmit sufficient torque? the sprockets should only be induction hardened on the teeth, not the inner splines, however the material that it's made from and the fact that it will gain some hardness when it's oil quenched could easily mean it ends up harder than the shaft with a tendency to dig into the shaft under shock loads.

It does look like the wrong item is sacrificial, but I bet it's just a case of "that's how they've always been made" and "not economically justifiable" to amend the design.

Do you want to email Mr Honda, or shall I :D
 

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I will wash it I promise!
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I suspect that you are correct and the shaft, although made out of pretty tough material is not hardened, this could cause embrittlement and lead to an inability to transmit sufficient torque? the sprockets should only be induction hardened on the teeth, not the inner splines, however the material that it's made from and the fact that it will gain some hardness when it's oil quenched could easily mean it ends up harder than the shaft with a tendency to dig into the shaft under shock loads.

It does look like the wrong item is sacrificial, but I bet it's just a case of "that's how they've always been made" and "not economically justifiable" to amend the design.

Do you want to email Mr Honda, or shall I :D

DUDE!!!

Gawd blimey Dilbert - with answers like that you are raising the bar to pretty lofty heights - new members will expect that same high quality and knowledgable answers from us all . . . . . . . . and not the normal mix of gibber and gentle p1ss taking that goes on!

by the way J Davies - welcome - and don't worry all bikes are pretty much welcome here even ones with german or austrian accents!! - most folks have owned a fair few bikes in their time and knowledge flows freely - kinda!!

by the way VFR - nice!

Z:D
 

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I will wash it I promise!
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not you - the bike!!!!

you don't have an accent do you LV - i've never noticed it in your txts!!:D:D:D
 

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Registered
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A VFR :shock:

:protest::protest: Kill the interloper :protest::protest:

This is a local site for local people :protest:

:D:D:D

Welcome mate. Cant answer your technical question through lack of experience but someone will be along shortly than has had the experience Im sure.
Nowt wrong with that,I have a VFR as well as the Transalp:D:D
 

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Sir FallofaLott
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DUDE!!!

Gawd blimey Dilbert - with answers like that you are raising the bar to pretty lofty heights - new members will expect that same high quality and knowledgable answers from us all . . . . . . . . and not the normal mix of gibber and gentle p1ss taking that goes on!

by the way J Davies - welcome - and don't worry all bikes are pretty much welcome here even ones with german or austrian accents!! - most folks have owned a fair few bikes in their time and knowledge flows freely - kinda!!

by the way VFR - nice!

Z:D

I was thinking that :( My usual answer of twiddle it a bit, or just kick it, wont seem so erudite anymore :(
 

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Complete Member
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Ok guys, so the second part of the reply was "and if that doesn't work, twiddle it a bit, kick it and then hit it with a lump hammer"

Happy now :D:D:D
 

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It's Just A Ride....
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Did someone mumble my name in Vain....? :rolleyes:

Hey, Mr J, VFR good bikes (well until the VTEC)... Stay quiet about the GPZ though!

Ok guys, so the second part of the reply was "and if that doesn't work, twiddle it a bit, kick it and then hit it with a lump hammer"
Happy now :D:D:D
Lump hammers are essential... In fact, I carry a whole plethora of various sized hammers... start hitting things with the small one and work up in size... If that don't fix it it will f**k it, so then your forced to buy a new thingy... works for me...
 

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Tropical Member
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wont seem so erudite anymore :(
"ERUDITE"?:D
(Apologies to Z-Weiser, by the way!)

Gawd blimey A'Slapper - with a word like that you are raising the bar to pretty lofty heights - new members will expect that same high quality vocabulary and correct spelling from us all . . . . . . . . and not the normal mix of typo's and misspelling that usually goes on!:D
 

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21st Century Schizoid Man
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