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Discussion Starter #1
Thought I would bore you with my tale of woe today.....

Got the plugs, got the filters, got the oil, got the time, all set for the sixteen thou' service today - a first working on the TA for me. But....

1. To do anything its fairing and tank off. About half an hour coz I've done it twice now.

2. Two of the plugs are a doddle. But the other two - I obvbiously haven't got the correct TA toolkit, coz I can't get 'em out [hex is too small for the plugs]. A tour round bike shops and car accessory dealers and no-one has a 12mm plug spanner. How the F**K are you supposed to remove the plugs then? And as for the front left plug - it looks like I have to take the radiator off as well. Does that mean I have to drain the coolant - I bloody hope not!!!

3. Right, on with the valves then. So that's the air box off as well - complete with 3 totally inacessible breathers and two equall inacessible carb top clamps. Remove one of the rocker covers, and then its down to the crankshaft end cover. IT WILL NOT BUDGE. 1 hour later with the corners of the cover about to round off, SOD it - the valves can wait til the start rattling. But looking at the other rocker covers it doesn't look like an easy job anyway.

Oil and filter will now wait for tomorrow when I have replaced that other plugs and can warm it up.

4. Stand up grabbing the throttle as I go and pull the heated grip straight off the throttle. Bugger, and start messing with the throttle and discover that it doesn't return - never noticed that before in use. Cable Oiler = another thing to buy Sunday.

five. Give up on service now and decide to fit Crash bars while the bike is in bits - following German instructions :? Eventually worked out had to remove two engine mounting bolts - the tightest things I have ever undone :x I actually lifted the front of the bike off the ground at one point. Anyway this was the onl success of the day.

6. While fitting crash bars notice regular drip from right hand radiator - nothing obvious but definitley coming from somewhere in the rad. SH*T!! :cry: cry:

seven. Also discovered the Scotoiler isn't working {thougt it wasn't using much oil] - lost one of the injector pipes and the other is worn out. :cry: : Dunno where the oil is going, but the chain is rusty now.

8. So tomorrow is trying to buy a plug spanner that'll fit a cable oiler and a filter wrench. Based on today I just know that filter WILL NOT COME OFF. :twisted:

So your wisdom sought: How the F**K do the plugs come out?; how long can I leave the valves?; should I just surrender and get it serviced at a bike shop?

Oh and I am pissed now - but have been very very careful typing this :D
 

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Austin said:
2. Two of the plugs are a doddle. But the other two - I obvbiously haven't got the correct TA toolkit, coz I can't get 'em out [hex is too small for the plugs]. A tour round bike shops and car accessory dealers and no-one has a 12mm plug spanner. How the F**K are you supposed to remove the plugs then? And as for the front left plug - it looks like I have to take the radiator off as well. Does that mean I have to drain the coolant - I bloody hope not!!!
Bad news mate. Pays to take your time, consider and walk away at the crunch points if you can to reflect. Easier said than done.

As to the plugs you need the Honda plug tool that I presume comes in the TA tool kit as it does in the AT one. Nothing else will do, well not that I've found anyway.
To get to the front plug you need to loosen the radiator and just ease it out of the way then you should have just enough room with the right tool to get the plug out.
Hope that helps a little.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Dave,

looks like I haven't got the proper TA toolkit then. Might try begging back at the dealer I got it from.

OR, has anyone got a spare plug spanner they would like to give, well OK sell to me. It would be hugely appreciated and I will say nice things about you for ever :)
 

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Austin said:
Thanks Dave,

looks like I haven't got the proper TA toolkit then. Might try begging back at the dealer I got it from.

OR, has anyone got a spare plug spanner they would like to give, well OK sell to me. It would be hugely appreciated and I will say nice things about you for ever :)
Somebody on the AT forum was just saying how he has 3 at's.(3 toolkits)

Might be worth an ask :wink:
 

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Hi Austin, sorry to hear of your tale of woe :cry:

If you want a plug spanner, PM me your address, I'll post mine to you to use, plugs are easy with the Honda tool.

Are you sure it's coolant from the rad, could be road salt accumulating moisture.....

Don't surrender to a dealer, if you need a hand, give me a shout.
Two thick head's are better than one, as they say :wink:

Phil
 

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wow, i feel for you and this is exactly why i dont do my own maintenance. i rely on my ta for commuting so can't afford for it to be off the road.

however, i agree with the advice on chilling at the point where you're about to torch your bike. go back to it later.

stick with it if you can as your bike may get better service from you than a dealer - i recently had a 20k service done and i'm pretty sure the oil filter wasn't changed :x

good luck :)
 

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I think we can all admit to having days like that Austin... a right bastrd though.
The plugs should be removable with a long box spanner, but the proper Honda tool is what is really needed. If you use a box spanner make it slightly out of 'square' so it holds the plug. Dropping the plug down the hole can be a bugger to retrieve.
I have a 600, so I'm not sure if yours is 600 or 650 ... for the 600 it isn't necessary to remove the rad, just loosen all the fixing bolts and pull it out the way to get the camshaft cover off. I did find the clearnces a bit tight so I think it is worth doing....
I had to wreck the crankshaft end cover when I stipped my engine - would not budge so I had to get it moving with a chisel. New end cover required.
Scottoilers do seem to require regular looking at, I give mine a quick glance to make sure oil is hitting the chain. It's always good to give the bike a quick look at regularly... I think cleaning it is good because you tend to notice things that would otherwise end up a problem...
I usually manage to get the oil filters off by hand, otherwise, again judicious use of a small chisel, or chain wrench, or even better, strap wrench. (Filter wrench if you want to go and buy one....)
Good luck... and pissed is good for objectivity
:lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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ChrisHXS said:
I usually manage to get the oil filters off by hand, otherwise, again judicious use of a small chisel, or chain wrench, or even better, strap wrench. (Filter wrench if you want to go and buy one....)
Good luck... and pissed is good for objectivity
:lol: :lol: :lol:

For a tenner,
these things are good - you can often get them into plenty of places that you'd struggle to turn the chain type ones in. And a lot less messy than stabbing the filter with a chisel or big screwdriver. :lol:
 

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stoo said:
. And a lot less messy than stabbing the filter with a chisel or big screwdriver. :lol:
No, No.. definitely NOT stabbing, that's horrible. Just careful tap on the edge with a small chisel to get it moving, but I'm sure the wrench you show is good, just too tight to buy one :wink:
 

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Pleb
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Filter grips are the easiest to use, there's not enough clearance behind the filter for sockets.

I've never found another tool for getting at the recessed plugs, it has to be the Honda one.

Setting valves if fiddly and time consuming. I was lucky that the timing covers freed up, I used copaslip on the threads since.

To do the front cylinder exhaust valve there's no need to drain the coolant - unmount the right rad and tie it back out of the way. I also only remove the valve inspection covers, not the whole cam covers. Dismantle your feeler guages so you're only holding the correct size and bend the end 10mm - this helps.

A set of vacuum guages is also worth having - balance the carbs after everything else is done.

As above, take your time and leave it overnight if it's not going too well. Have a beer and think of all that cash you're saving.
 

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Generalissimo Tea Boy
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I use one of those feeler gauge tools from MPS that only has the settings I require for inlet and outlet, makes the job easier as they fit in confined spaces. The front rad I just unbolt and push out of the way. I use a very small open ended spanner for the tappet adjuster (I think it's a 4mm Draper about 2 inches long)and a cranked ring spanner (a left over from a Yamaha toolkit) for the locknut. If you hold the adjuster steady and spin the locknut up as much as you can with your finger (with the feeler gauge still in the gap) it's easier to set the gap. Believe me, it takes forever the first time, a long time the second, but eventually it gets very easy and you'll wonder how you'd cope on other bikes.

The Honda plug spanner makes removing the plugs easier and is well worth searching out (it works around corners) but is not vital. I never had one for my first AT so I used a very long cheapo box spanner type (sold by all crappy bike shops) with a screw driver through the hole in the top to provide the leverage. After the initial untightening you can spin the long plug spanner with your fingers, switching to a shorter one if you run out of room above the hole. You need one of this type, as socket set plug spanners are usually too thick walled to go all the way down the hole.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for all the support guys. A better day today.....

Gave up on the plugs until I get a proper spanner. Tried a long box spanner, but I cannot get it onto the plugs. Might play with the grinder to take some corners off and see what happens. However would still like the proper tool.

Also gave up on the tappets - that end cover is about to go all mangled. I'll get a good quality big ten mm allen key. That'll sort it. Oh, and I decided the rad would swing out the way. 4mm spanner needed. Hmm, that'll be another trip to the tool shop then. :?

Regarding the leak in the rad - took the cap off and it was still full, so was the expansion bottle, so decided it wasn't leaking at all and it was just water held in the cooling fins from when I washed it before I started servicing. Phew, but I will keep an eye on water level. When I started it later the rad dried and shows no signing of leaking. :p

Oil change was easy - filter came off with just a little effort and a strap wrench. :D

Fixed the scotolier injector as well - had some spare black tubing, did the mushroom bit on the ends, bent into U and heatedup to set the bend. Nicley dripping oil now but need to do something about the rust on the chain sideplates now.

Even manged to get the brake pads out, clean out the calipers, slap copperease every where, and get 'em back together. :D Surprisingl this was the easiest job of the weekend.

Only downside to the day was re-fitting the fairing [apart from spending half an hour looking for missing screws that I had put back in the bolts :? ] I cannot get the "stone guard" to fit with the Motech Crash Bars I have now fitted. The bit where the U-bolt goes round the frame is in the way. Could cut the stone guard down, but left it off for now. Its that flimsy I can't see it does much good anyway. An ideas chaps - have I got the bars on wrong [probably :oops: ] or is this normal?

I definitely think the TA is flawed in its design. Nothing should be designed so that even the simplest routine servicing involves removing major components - fairing, tank, air box, radiators [none of which are that easy in themselves to remove], and requires specialist tools. The conspiracists among might think that it is deliberate, to drive us to the dealers and so they can charge an extra hour every time for dismantling. :x
 

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Austin said:
] I cannot get the "stone guard" to fit with the Motech Crash Bars I have now fitted. The bit where the U-bolt goes round the frame is in the way. Could cut the stone guard down, but left it off for now. Its that flimsy I can't see it does much good anyway. An ideas chaps - have I got the bars on wrong [probably :oops: ] or is this normal?
I had to cut the stone guard down on my AT for SW Motech bars.... looks like you have to do the same on the TA as well.
 

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Austin said:
Also gave up on the tappets - that end cover is about to go all mangled. I'll get a good quality big ten mm allen key. That'll sort it.
Yeah? I had a 10mm allen on the end of an air impact wrench - wouldn't shift... :cry: Glad things are lookng better now :wink: It's a long time since anything mechanical was designed to be maintained by the home mechanic... just have to manage the best we can :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
ChrisHXS said:
Austin said:
Also gave up on the tappets - that end cover is about to go all mangled. I'll get a good quality big ten mm allen key. That'll sort it.
Yeah? I had a 10mm allen on the end of an air impact wrench - wouldn't shift... :cry: Glad things are lookng better now :wink: It's a long time since anything mechanical was designed to be maintained by the home mechanic... just have to manage the best we can :lol:
So, another conspiracy theorist :wink:
 

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Glad things are looking up :lol:

Sometimes things "just go wrong", happens to us all, it's normally much better the next day :lol:

The 600 are much more logical to work on, ah well, chin up :wink:

Phil
 

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Dances with Drunks
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Sorry the 'bastard factor' has been working strongly against you, Austin. I'll shortly be attempting the same thing, so read your report with some interest...

Should the 'thin' plug spanner be in the standard TA toolkit? - I've not had cause to look in mine yet.

I subscribe strongly to 'the conspiracy theory', and add a new level of paranoia: that there are mechanics working in dealers who can't be arsed to remove all the bodywork either, and may therefore be tempted to be a little economical with the truth when ticking boxes on service jobsheets. So although a PIA, at least DIY means you know things have definitely been done.
 

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I think there's a conspiracy theory going on with most mechanical things I've ever worked on, be it cars, motorbikes, computers or general other things. In my case I think it's a conspiracy of small people!

When you have big hand and are generally of a Prop type physique all spaces to get tools, hands or limbs into are just too ruddy small!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Things are looking up......

I phoned Blackpool Honda (where I bought bike from 9 months ago] and told 'em about the inadequate plug spanner supplied with the bike. Phoned me straight back and said they had one and would swap old spanner for new. When I got there I told 'em the whole toolkit was wrong for the bike. The sales manager took one look and said "yes, not for a TA that". 2 minutes later I had a brand new toolkit in my hands!! Result :D :D Think I'll give them a recommendation in dealer forum.

Now I just have to take off the fairing, tank, and move a radiator just to change two spark plugs :? :?
 

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im reading any threads from the first ever ones backwards that catch my eye . this is a good one worth bumping i taught . i used to have an old ntv 650 i never even knew about the hidden plugs when i had it . what you dont know wont trouble you :D the fuel pump went in i got a allmost new one from pm in mountrath for 60 euro that was around 2005 . it came off a dueville with only 14k miles he said it sure was very shiny . when i bought that bike it had 69 k miles on it . it was rought enough but i got it cheap i done it up a bit and made my own can out of 3 inch stainless dairy tube . i used elbows to make it fit on the down pipes . a lot of cuting with the small grinder to get it sorted i welded it all up with an arc welder them stainless rods aint cheap . it was the job a real town and country pipe real quite at low revs but open it up and it made a wonderfull racket . that bike was very uncomfortable not a patch on the transalp but i liked the engin and i supose it led me along to the transalp .
 
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