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Discussion Starter #1
I've blogged this elsewhere but thought it might provoke some discussion especially round the "Hendon Shuffle" bit.

Saturday saw the start of my IAM training. I had mulled over doing this IAM stuff for a few years now and I couldn't really shake off a couple of preconceptions I had surrounding the IAM

Firstly. It's full of old biffers driving like Miss Daisy's chauffeur

And

Secondly It would take the fun out of riding a bike which is after all why I own a bike and not a car.

The day started with me meeting my observer (Dave) who would be guiding and training me up to the necessary standard in order to pass my IAM test (it's now called an assessment apparently). After a quick chat and introductions we headed off to a local industrial estate to cover the basics including pre ride checks and stopping and starting. One thing I will say about the IAM is it loves it's acronyms. BETOPS, IPSGA and TUG just to mention a few.

We then did a little low speed manoeuvring, something I hadn't really done (outside general on road stuff) for a few years but it all came flooding back. A bit of observational stuff standing on the road and comparing the differing views and perspectives based on road position followed.

We then mounted up and headed into the city centre with Dave in pursuit watching my every move. I must admit it was a bit strange as it must be thirty years since my riding had been so closely scrutinised but it did make me think more than usual.

A couple of points got me though. Filtering seems to be a no no (I guessed as much so resisted) but getting to the front of the lights using lane 1 when it (lane 1) has parked cars just after the lights seems to be OK. Just use the power advantage of the bike to squirt off when the lights change and move into lane 2. While on the subject of "squirting off" what is this Hendon Shuffle all about then? Left right left right. It's like a dance. Hardly conducive to getting anywhere in town quickly but I'll go with it and see if it grows on me.

A final debrief over coffee which included loads of questions from me and we went our separate ways till next week. Me with some reading and a quiz to do and loads of things to practice.

I think this could be fun but I'm still not too sure about the fun being taken out of biking. So far it's interesting but not much fun.
 

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Truffle shuffle king
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Pleased you tried it. You can't ever stop learning.... Even if you disagree with something, that's good coz you have thought about it.

Filtering.... Mmmm be interesting if he brings this up later on as the IAM group I am in are ok with it. Keep a meter or so from White line at lights and roll on last moment of Amber so you cross the line on green and 'squirt' away.


Hendon shuffle.... Really can't see the point. It was told pull up slip to neutral and right foot down. This supposidly means you havnt got clutch in for long time and if hit from behind while in gear you would drop clutch n shoot off..... Now for me potentially being 'shafted' from behind it would be a benefit to being able to 'squirt' off.
Personnally I pull up in gear n clutch in if I know it's a short wait.

Suppose the best thing is to listen and think about your riding - always question why you are doing something... Or not.

Have fun
 

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I must admit I only took the test because I HAD to but did get a lot from it in terms of confirming my ability and raising my confidence.

I had issues with it for the very reasons you did and with the differing interpretations like these you mention.

Filtering...of course its allowed, its a matter of doing it legally - must not pass any car already stoped at the line unless there is room for you to be 'infront' as opposed to alongside. Dont pass stationary cars on zigzag lines (not parked but traffic). Its really down to confidence at slow speed and being able to do it without intimidating traffic.

Shuffle - I done this until I took my IAM - they taught me to stay on the clutch until the traffic behind was static and not able to cause a rear end event - that way I could pull away in an emergency. If it did stabilise, I then kept my right leg down and came out of gear, again able to quickly engage and move off unless you knew you had a long wait at the lights where the shuffle came in to stand on the left and use the rear brake as per a handbrake in a car.

The variations between regions is to me what reduces the uptake of this training which I again admit was useful and learning always will be. You will only respect the word of the training if it is backed up by others.

Biggest change I made - riding only within my lane - I always approached a left hand corner just to the right of the line for visability, moving over if there was oncoming traffic of course. Police taught this on the old Honda Red Roder scheme years ago - now the police advise against this apparently as it confused too many car drivers who in a panic, moved into your path as you moved back into lane.
Biggest thing I learned - confidence in slow manouvering - as you say, I always had done it but only in actual need, now I U Turn more often as im confident I can turn anywhere.

Discuss you issues with the leaders - it can be a student/teacher thing sometimes and they should put you with different observers anyway and not just one for the entire course.
 

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Craigypops
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It was told pull up slip to neutral and right foot down. This supposidly means you havnt got clutch in for long time and if hit from behind while in gear you would drop clutch n shoot off.....
If you are in 1st gear and you are hit from behind and drop the clutch the bike will stall, this is why i was taught to leave it in first and apply the rear brake (the brake light is also a warning to other traffic you have stopped).

Whats all this shuffle business then Boris?



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Discussion Starter #5
Hendon shuffle.... Really can't see the point. It was told pull up slip to neutral and right foot down. This supposidly means you havnt got clutch in for long time and if hit from behind while in gear you would drop clutch n shoot off..... Now for me potentially being 'shafted' from behind it would be a benefit to being able to 'squirt' off.
Personnally I pull up in gear n clutch in if I know it's a short wait.

Have fun
That's exactly how I do (well did) it for the last 30 years. Roll up to halt using engine and brakes and if used release rear brake as I come to a halt and put right foot down. Left foot stays on peg to snick in and out of gear and hold bike on front brake of necessary. Only time left foot goes down is if surface looks iffy, camber is well off or too steep to hold on front brake alone.

Like you always drop to neutral if wait will be more than a few seconds.

I suppose its good to know other methods but without any sound reason for doing them (and some good reasons for not doing them) it does seem a little bit of process for process sake.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If you are in 1st gear and you are hit from behind and drop the clutch the bike will stall, this is why i was taught to leave it in first and apply the rear brake (the brake light is also a warning to other traffic you have stopped).

Whats all this shuffle business then Boris?
Shamelessly nicked from another site

THE HENDON SHUFFLE

Aka the “Dancing Bear Routine”.

Named after the Police Driver/Rider Training College at Hendon.

The technique that used to be taught for stopping was something like this:-

  1. That the final braking effort should be with the foot-brake only, in order to achieve a smother, jerk-free stop – the front forks do not need to de-compress. Also, to show the brake light - on early and small modern, motorcycles the brake light only operates on the rear brake.
  2. Apply the front brake.
  3. Foot-brake foot to the ground.
  4. Gear change foot to engage neutral (unless the stop was very brief).
  5. Release clutch lever - saves wear on mechanism and stretch on springs and cable or pressure on hydraulics.
  6. Gear change foot back onto the ground.
  7. Foot brake to be re-applied (to show a brake light).
  8. Release the front brake, less likelihood of machine twisting if hit from behind.
Or left right left right etc.........
 

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Craigypops
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I suppose its good to know other methods but without any sound reason for doing them (and some good reasons for not doing them) it does seem a little bit of process for process sake.
One good reason for not using the front brake when stopped (and the most important i reckon) is that if you are shunted from behind then the likelyhood of the car flipping you over as it hits your back wheel is higher. If you have the rear applied it's much less likely.



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I learnt on old british bikes ( foot brake on the left ) Brakes operated by chicken wire .. :D


So you used the gear box more to slow down as the brakes were poo

and as gears are on the right I guess this is where the shuffle came from..


being an old dog I learning to ride Johnny Foreigner Bikes, I now ..

pull up using both brakes ( wow they work ). Right foot out ( as given the camber my wee booted foot is closer to the ground ), one finger on the front brake to steady the bike, clutch in with left boot on the gears…..

if a short stop … move of transferring brake to clutch..

if a longer stop .. neutral and left foot down.. Right foot to rear brake and then both hands on the tank for a wee rest and to look cool…

Slide right foot of to ground, as i covering front brake.. left up and select first... then offski..


ohh.. while constantly looking about and treating every one as if they have not seen you and want you dead :D:hitler:



not saying its right … not saying its wrong … but works for me

got my cycling proficiency badge years ago .. so not looking for any gongs.. but always willing to learn ,so will watch and pick up what’s good for me ..

Any excuse to ride the bike... so keep it up Boris :thumbup:
 

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One good reason for not using the front brake when stopped (and the most important i reckon) is that if you are shunted from behind then the likelyhood of the car flipping you over as it hits your back wheel is higher.
Having the front brake on when hit from behind removes the ability to steer and makes it likely that the front will cross up, break traction and slide. If it slides away to one side, you get pulled down in front of the car that's hit you. Splat.

From experience, a car hitting your rear wheel when you are stopped tends to ride up the back wheel forcing it into the road regardless of how hard you have the brake on. Due to the centre of gravity of a bike it's highly unlikely to flip it from a low impact.

Forget the rider in the physics as, if you're hit hard enough, you'll part company with the bike and most likely end up sitting on the bonnet/windscreen/roof/road behind. If you have hard luggage or a backrest on the bike, that is all going to hit you at slightly less than the speed of the car that just hit the bike. It's a good argument for removing panniers and topbox when not in use.

There are lots of variables of course but one of the most likely things is you're going to get hurt if you get hit from behind.

The Hendon Shuffle goes in and out of favour. I just do what I'm happy with. If I'm sure the traffic has stopped safely behind and it'll be a while, I'll do the shuffle. If there is still movement behind and any possibility of a shunt I'll just have the rear brake on and the bike in gear. That way I can get out the way quickly. The only time I'll have the front brake on is during the shuffle - but if I'm doing that, it means there should be no danger anyway.
 

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Yip...like Alan said!
 

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My version of the shuffle is to go into neutral whilst still rolling and then apply the rear brake, wait, then lift up my left foot, put the bike in gear and move off in one motion when pulling away. Not sure that'll win me any bonus points in a test, mind! Does save on the position shifting like a loon, though...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
OK Today's question.

I've been told when I take my bike off the main stand I mustn't let the stand clang up and hit the bottom of the bike. Apparently the IAM way is to put one foot on the stand and as you roll the bike off the stand you catch it (the stand) with this foot and gently raise it till it is in it's fully up position.

What bothers me about this approach is I am now efficiently taking my bike of the mainstand while standing on one leg. It feels much less safe and stable than my usual way of planting both feet firmly and hauling it off the stand and letting the stand retract at it's own pace.

Is this really the IAM way or just something that my observer has concocted?
 

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Given how much the TA700 drops off the main stand, Id not want to be doing it on one leg either....other bikes ive owned maybe, but not the 700.

Not sure its concocted...just a bit old school maybe?
 

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Is this really the IAM way or just something that my observer has concocted?
did he say pat your stomach at the same time........




















******** if you ask me :angel10:
 

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Is this really the IAM way or just something that my observer has concocted?
It is the IAM way. It does feel odd if you're not doing it quite right.

You shouldn't be standing on one leg. You should be putting weight through the foot that's on the centre stand 'lever' as well as the one that's flat on the ground. As you move the bike forward off the stand the pressure of your foot on the stand steadies it.

If the bike feels unstable, you're not putting enough weight on your "stand" foot. The bike should stay upright with just the force you are applying to the stand - assuming you applied IAM principles when choosing somewhere to park :thumbright:
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
It is the IAM way. It does feel odd if you're not doing it quite right.

You shouldn't be standing on one leg. You should be putting weight through the foot that's on the centre stand 'lever' as well as the one that's flat on the ground. As you move the bike forward off the stand the pressure of your foot on the stand steadies it.
Well any weight I put on the foot I have on the stand makes it harder to pull the bike off the stand and when you are trying to pull 250KG of fuelled up bike of the mainstand the last thing I need is to try and lift some my own weight as well.

I can see the point about it being steadied once both wheels are on the deck but I still don't think its as stable as two well planted feet a bit away from the bike and not one right under it on the stand.


If the bike feels unstable, you're not putting enough weight on your "stand" foot. The bike should stay upright with just the force you are applying to the stand - assuming you applied IAM principles when choosing somewhere to park :thumbright:
So why not just put two feet firmly on the ground? Manufacturers go to great length to put bump stops on the stand for a reason so why not use them. I cant see how anyone can argue that it's less stable with both feet well spaced sharing the load than just the majority of the weight on one.
 

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Well any weight I put on the foot I have on the stand makes it harder to pull the bike off the stand and when you are trying to pull 250KG of fuelled up bike of the mainstand the last thing I need is to try and lift some my own weight as well.
Initially, you just need enough weight to stop the stand springing up so you're not putting much force through the toes on that leg - most of the weight is through your heel. As the bike rolls off the stand, you put more weight through the toes as the lever lifts and that is where the stability advantage is gained.

I can see the point about it being steadied once both wheels are on the deck but I still don't think its as stable as two well planted feet a bit away from the bike and not one right under it on the stand.
Two feet planted away from the bike is fine as long as the bike doesn't fall away from you. By applying force to the centre stand, you are actually able to apply force via the stand to the other side of the bike. If it is allowed to rock slightly away from you, putting more weight on the lever brings it back without any other input (easier to try this with a light bike!).

I cant see how anyone can argue that it's less stable with both feet well spaced sharing the load than just the majority of the weight on one.
Quite right. The weight should still be distributed between both feet. When I do this, my toes are on the stand tang and my heel is on the ground. As I start the manoeuvre, most of my weight on the stand foot is through the heel. As the bike comes off the stand, the weight transfers to my toes as the lever comes up. I can apply enough force through my toes to keep the bike upright without even touching the bike.

Keep practising and eventually you'll find what works best for you. You'll suddenly find a balance that feels right and it will all make sense. The differences between good and bad technique are quite subtle and difficult to pick up from watching someone else.
 

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Actually the stand thing isn't just an IAM thang... I was shown this when doing the CBT last year. I agree about it feeling odd - was ok with the GS500 with little weight but on a fully fueled Varadero it does but I agree that when it is off the stand you could literally hold it there with your foot on the stand quite easily.
 
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