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Discussion Starter #1
Humph. I replaced all my warning lights on the dash with LED's today.

(Get one of these little packs, very useful! All the colours you need and enough of them
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250141304384)

Anyway. They all work, very well too, excpet that the indicator flasher relay seems to swap the current flow direction to the dashboard bulb depending on what way you indicate!!!

So with a normal bulb, no problem, but with the LED it only blinks when you indicate left (Or right depending what way round :D)

Yes I found this out once the screen, dash and upper cowling were back together. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I guess a 12v flasher relay is a pretty generic item apart from the shape so anyone know where you can get one that just flashes without fooking about with current flow?! Also there were a couple of wires cut on it but all the bulbs work and always have done so....:confused:

I assume the fast-paced world of blinky wee lights has moved on in this area of course. :D
 

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Mayb you should connect an other one but opposite.
One for the left and one for the right?!?! This way your passenger also know which way you want to turn ;-)
 

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A man without Ale.
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I have a couple of bridging flasher relays that i dont need. I could shoot them your way if you want em...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have a couple of bridging flasher relays that i dont need. I could shoot them your way if you want em...
What's one of those then? :D What type does the AT come with?

If you don't mind though that would be handy! Will keep me out of mischief having a tinker with them anyway...:evil4::D
 

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A man without Ale.
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Sorry my bad.. i got distracted... it is a resistor not a relay... basically it makes the flasher unit think that the correct voltage is being used and then the flasher unit flashes.. (i had to install em when i changed over to led turn signals... if you want em pm me your addy and ill go dig em out.. (that could take a couple of days though)
 

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I don't think that will work!

I haven't got an AT wiring diagram to hand, so can't be sure at the moment how the indicator idiot light is wired.

The dummy load resistors Xander mentioned are for "bodging" (s'cuse my french) an LED installation for your turn signals. Basically, your existing indicator bulbs draw 2 x 21watts, and this current makes the bi-metallic flasher unit heat up, making and breaking a circuit so that the two bulbs (and idiot light) flash.
When you replace your turn signals with LED's, the problem is LED's do not draw enough current for the original flasher unit to work.
There are two ways to rectify this.
1. Is to replace the old mechanical flasher unit with an electronic one, which is the best option, and is literally plug&play.
2. Which is the least preferred option (by me) is to fit dummy loads (resistors) which create a current draw for the LED's and fool the original flasher unit into thinking they're bulbs. This option defeats one advantage of using LED's, which is to save power! (that you can potentially use elsewhere maybe)

I think your problem with fitting an LED idiot light for the indicators is due to the way the idiot light is originally wired into the loom, and indicator circuit. Basiaclly, an LED is a diode, and current will only flow in one direction (and make it light) so I'm guessing if you have a wiring diagram you will see where the problem is.

I actually slipped a blue wedge LED into my hi-beam idiot light ages back, and it's amazing how much better they are isn'y it??!!!

I also put one of the 2 x 33 LED tail lamps in a few weeks ago, (A) to hopefully eliminate blown bulbs and (B) for the minimal powersaving benefits.

It should be easy to rectify this problem, and when I can get my Haynes manual I'll have a look to see what it might be.

Cheers


Bob
 

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A man without Ale.
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Just to be argumentative.. I had the same issue (when i did the led change over). and I could not find a three pin electronic flasher that worked. (the lowest one I could find was a a 3-21, and my draw was less then that..the "led specific universal" ones (motosomthing) only had 2 wires, and the really exxy ones from HG had the resistor built in so it was the same thing (no power saving).... So now I have both the bodging resistor and the electonic flasher in there.. it was the only way I could get both sides to work... it was a real pain in the ass.... Anyway, if you want to give them a try.. let me know..
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Bob I have a scanned copy of the whole Haynes in PDF format I could send you if you like?

You might have to download it from me if I set up a little website as it's about 70mb!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I actually slipped a blue wedge LED into my hi-beam idiot light ages back, and it's amazing how much better they are isn'y it??!!!
Yes those ones are quite spectacular I noticed too! The yellow and green ones appear identical, and the red oil light is slightly darker than a normal bulb, but still visible.
 

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A man without Ale.
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Just an update. A bridge rectifier in line with the LED allows the LED to work when the indicators are going both ways.

I ordered 'W01 BRIDGE RECTIFIER, 1.5A 100V' from eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180140780300
Why???? I offered to give you two of them???? Oh well a fool and his money will soon be parted..

By the way remember that the type you ordered are not fitted with heat sinks, and could get very hot.. be careful where you stick em..
 

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21st Century Schizoid Man
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Discussion Starter #15
I have a couple of bridging flasher relays that i dont need. I could shoot them your way if you want em...
Why???? I offered to give you two of them???? Oh well a fool and his money will soon be parted..

By the way remember that the type you ordered are not fitted with heat sinks, and could get very hot.. be careful where you stick em..
Whoops, at the time you offered I thought that was something to do with LED bulb conversions, not just the dashboard light as you mentioned a relay...

These aren't whole relays, just little tiny rectifiers.
 

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It is not necesary to change the Flasher relay to get LED indicator to work, just a small wiring change and two cheap diodes costing £0.50p.

OK, I have the cure for your flasher indicator lamp problems, but first the problem.

The reason your LED replacement lamp only works on one side indicators is because of the way the little LED works and the way the original lamp is wired into the bike. If you check the circuit diagram it show the little lamp is connected to the live side of each indicator, in other words the little lamp uses the live side of the opposite flasher to complete the circuit. As the little lamp only uses a small amount of current then it cannot light the 'off side' indicator (sorry I know this is complex) at the same time. When you switch to the other indicator then the reverse applies. It is important to realize that the little indicator bulb carries current in both directions to light i.e. one direction for the right indicator on, and the other way for the left indicator on.

Now, when you fit an LED lamp in replacement of the original it only lights in one direction (dependant on which way round the LED is fitted into the lamp holder). You need to remember that an LED is in fact a Diode, and as such it will only allow current in one direction hence lamp works one way but not the other (a kind of electrical one way valve).

The cure is to do a little re-wire and add a couple of very cheap components.

Go out and buy two normal diodes from a radio spares shop (should be about £0.50 for a bag of 20), They are normally black and have a small grey band printed on them that indicates the current flow (remember, one way valve for electricity), Cut the wires going to the little lamp holder about 2’’ from the holder. Wire one diode each to the wires that come into the lamp holder (that is the small idiot light holder) from the wiring harness of the bike with the grey ring closest to the holder (i.e. current flow towards the little lamp). The two other ends of the diodes (grey ring ends) are now soldered together and on to one side of the little lamp holder (chose any side). Now wire the other side of the lamp holder to earth on the bike.

Fit the LED into the holder and test, If the LED fails to light then switch it around 180 degrees and try again. If one side indicator lights and the other fails to light then one of the Diodes you have wired in is in the wrong way round (swap it and all should be well), if the LED fails to light in both directions then both the Diodes are wired the wrong way round so swap them over.

Finally, The diodes are very small and it should be possible to fit shrink sleeve to the soldered ends and fit another bigger one over both diodes to look like the original bike wiring loom. So if done correctly no one should see and change to the bike.

Interestingly, if the Diodes chosen are sufficiently large capacity then fitting the normal lamp should also work as well as the LED lamp.

BONGO, job done

Sorry if I have confused you on this one.

I converted my @ over 12 months ago and all is fine, total cost to me £0 FREE, I robbed the parts from an old radio
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
That's even better than the rectifiers as that will work 'in-line' with the holder - I've been trying to make a little case to house the rectifier without much luck!

What is a diode's capcity measured in? Ohms? What would a suitable rating to allow a normal lamp to be used?

Many thanks Richard
 

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balee
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Sorry my bad.. i got distracted... it is a resistor not a relay... basically it makes the flasher unit think that the correct voltage is being used and then the flasher unit flashes.. (i had to install em when i changed over to led turn signals... if you want em pm me your addy and ill go dig em out.. (that could take a couple of days though)
greetings to all! i have a simillar problem. i changed my turn signals, and the bulbs are 10W each instead of 21W, and when i turn them on the flash rate is too fast. i read that i should install a resistor, but i haven't a clue on what type of resistor to use and where and how to install it. any help will be much appreciated.
 

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Hi,

The reason the indicators only flash one way is that LED's only allow current to flow through them one way, they effectively block current flow in the opposite direction....ie they are "polarity sensitive"

If you reverse the LED connections the other way around it will work for the other direction indicator only.

The way arround this is to fit a thing called a "bridge rectifier" available from Maplin , Radio spares, Farnell.etc...a small "1 Amp" one will do nicely. or raid an old mains powered radio,!! etc

Wiring:

Connect the wires that originally went to the dash indicator bulb to the connections marked like as "S", either way around!!

Connect the "+" on the bridge rectifier to the "+ on the led.

Connect the "-" on the bridge rectifier to the "-ve" on the led.

It will now work!!!..the reason I know......I have a voltage "polarity sensitive" warning buzzer fitted to my indicators as I kept leaving them on to the annoyance of my mates and encountered the same problems when I tried to wire it up.....being an electronics engineer I soon thought of the above way around the problem!!

Hope this makes sence as I am in a bit of a hurry ...will probably be back on the forum later tonight to no doubt answer any questions!!

Hope this helps

Grant
 

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balee
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thank you for your answer but i was asking about the flash frequency being too fast due to 10watts bulbs instead of 21watts, and i read in this thread that i should install a resistor, but i have no knowlidge of where to install it and what type of resistor to use. i appreciate your time.
 
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