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... "Simeon Evans, defending, said Sherratt “did not think there was room for the motorcycle to overtake him and decided to block the gap."

:knob: :angry4:
 

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Captain unsensible.......
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the long and short of it was nothing to do with not thinking there was enough room - he veered over to stop him getting past because he was a petty knob. I hope he gets brown love on a daily basis whilst in prison.
 

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It would be interesting to know the full details as curently it seems like the biker was passing too close to the car. If he was well over to the right going past it, how could it have clipped him and forced him into oncoming traffic without resulting in a car on car head-on too?

So what was the biker doing overtaking when there was oncoming traffic? That sounds like it was a "meat in the sandwich" move. That would explain how the motorcyclist was forced into oncoming traffic.

I'm not arguing that the car driver isn't a psycho knob end - just that maybe the motorcyclist unnecessarily put himself in that situation.

Slightly diffeent scenario... If you're riding down a single carriageway road and a car behind looks like it is lining up to squeeze between you and oncoming traffic, do you move over and let them through forcing you into the gutter, or do you close the gap so they are not tempted to squeeze through? Was the car driver just attempting the same?
 

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Sounds like the biker was quite close, as the description mentions that the driver moved right and forced him over the line.

Hard call really, but it is now very obvious to the driver that bike riders are extremely vunerable, and putting the squeeze on one whether he's making a crazy move or not can have horrible consequences for both parties.

Driver = Knob? YES
Rider = Silly Move? Not Sure, MAYBE


Once upon a time, when I had a real job, I used to commute through the Blackwall Tunnel, and it never ceased to amaze me how some bikers would force their way up between two lines of traffic in the tunnel, and how those cars had absolutely zero room to avoid the biker if something went wrong :confused:



Bob :thumb:
 

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Craigypops
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So what was the biker doing overtaking when there was oncoming traffic? That sounds like it was a "meat in the sandwich" move. That would explain how the motorcyclist was forced into oncoming traffic
Do you ride a bike Alan?... ive overtaken loads of times whilst theres oncoming traffic it just depends on what oncoming traffic there is, obviously i only do it when it's safe but if some absolute peice of sh!t drives his car into me and forces me into them it's not exactly my fault now is it.

Slightly diffeent scenario... If you're riding down a single carriageway road and a car behind looks like it is lining up to squeeze between you and oncoming traffic, do you move over and let them through forcing you into the gutter, or do you close the gap so they are not tempted to squeeze through? Was the car driver just attempting the same?
You do neither, you drive as you would normally drive and if a vehicle attempts to overtake you, you slow down to let it pass, thats the safe thing to do.

A bike passing a car even sandwiched between the car and oncoming traffic does not force the car into the gutter.

As far as i can see the guy driving the car (and by his own admission) purposely manouvered his car upon seeing the bike overtake as to block him, not close any kind of gap but to block, can't remember seeing that in the highway code?

It's not for us or anyone else but the police to enforce laws, if someones being a dick on the road then the police will deal with it.



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nunquam scienter utilis
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it doesn't matter if the biker was being an arse, and overtaking when he shouldn't. The car driver should have attempted to avoid an accident, and moved out of the way as much as possible. If there had been an accident then, he would be blameless. By moving into the way deliberately, it's little short of attempted murder.
 

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it doesn't matter if the biker was being an arse, and overtaking when he shouldn't. The car driver should have attempted to avoid an accident, and moved out of the way as much as possible. If there had been an accident then, he would be blameless. By moving into the way deliberately, it's little short of attempted murder.
i do quite a lot of overtaking in heavy traffic around town etc. i go into an overtake with no expectations of the car moving one way or another. if they move over and let me through, great, they get a thumb up where possible. if they stay still, thats also fine. ill have made sure theres enough room for me to get safely past either way. what you dont expect is movement to block you. its deliberate and misguided at the VERY best, and bordering on death by reckless driving at worst.

its almost irrelevant what the rider was doing at the time given the drivers own admission of his actions.
 

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Do you ride a bike Alan?... ive overtaken loads of times whilst theres oncoming traffic it just depends on what oncoming traffic there is
Yes, I do ride a motorcycle:cool: - I just didn't phrase my post clearly enough.

I do overtake when there is oncoming traffic as long as there is plenty of space to do so safely. I'll give plenty of room to the vehicle I'm overtaking (just in case they swerve around a pothole or some debris - or drop their coffee in their lap). I'll get back on my side of the road well before reaching an oncoming vehicle.

In this case it sounds like the oncoming traffic was not so much oncoming but nearly there - and that's what I was questioning.

Annything likely to put you between rows of cars going in opposite directions is extremely iffy. All it takes is for one of the vehicles to close the gap slightly and it's lights out as you get minced between the two vehicles and your bike.

If the biker was riding in the manner taught by a RoSPA instructor, I wonder whether he would have attempted the overtake, or would have even been in a position where the car could have clipped him.

Positioning your bike on the road to ensure a vehicle cannot attempt an unsafe overtake and put you in danger is a taught technique. What you don't do is try to block once they have already started an overtake.

We don't have enough details so all of this is pure speculation of course.
 

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it doesn't matter if the biker was being an arse, and overtaking when he shouldn't. The car driver should have attempted to avoid an accident, and moved out of the way as much as possible. If there had been an accident then, he would be blameless. By moving into the way deliberately, it's little short of attempted murder.
+1

...but we need to be prepared for the morons out there who do use us as targets and try not to give them the opportunity. It's no use being in the right and dead.
 

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The bit that was running through my mind was the following statement...

“The defendant deliberately turned his vehicle into the centre of the road causing impact with the bike and forcing him across the central white line.”

It reads like the biker was passing the vehicle on it's side of the white line, so potentially quite close. So I wondered if it was a solid white line that the biker has chosen NOT to cross (as the law states) but he'd determined there was enough room to pass the car (until said car veered into his path). Solid white lines are generally on dangerous lengths of road or where visibility is reduced.

NOTHING will make what the car driver did right. He was a knob, but I'm guessing he really didn't know the consequences and life-changing implications of his stupid, rash, reaction.



Bob :(
 

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SOTGATT
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t reads like the biker was passing the vehicle on it's side of the white line, so potentially quite close. So I wondered if it was a solid white line that the biker has chosen NOT to cross (as the law states) but he'd determined there was enough room to pass the car (until said car veered into his path). Solid white lines are generally on dangerous lengths of road or where visibility is reduced.
A27 Bob? :hitler:

I must admit I often overtake there just inside the solid double whites.....However, I'm a wary and cynical man....so make sure that there is a plan B.
 

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2 bikes = twice as happy
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he should be done for attempted murder. What did he think was going to happen to a biker he deliberately steered his car into - that the bodywork would be scratched?? In this case it really is the body that gets scratched.

Cases like this need to be reported in the mainstream press. In MCN it is preaching the converted.
 

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Ever since it was explained to me that the solid white lines meant "do not cross" rather than "do not overtake" as I mistakenly thought, I'll certainly pass a vehicle without goingh over them, if it's safe to do so.

Obviously, none of us can predict what this idiot driver did though!


;)
 

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Elefant rider
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Story taken from German Honda Board. Has happened to one of the members.

One car in front of him. Him going round about 140km/h (ok, too fast yes). No oncoming traffic. He tries to overtake the car while completely leaving the former lane and moving completely onto the other lane. Making sure that there is enough room. Driver checks rearview mirror, sees bike attempting overtake and moves his car deliberately completely into the other lane as well. Of course he does that right in front of him. There was no room left according to the biker. End of the story.... biker gave everything he had into his brakes but couldnt avoid crashing the bike and flying for a good 200ms across the street. Car driver just went on..... Eventually he went to the police and reported the incident. But he just left the biker lying on the street.

that was attempted murder! Unfortunately German judges have no balls. I dont know about any driver who ever went to jail for something like that.
 

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Craigypops
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I do overtake when there is oncoming traffic as long as there is plenty of space to do so safely. I'll give plenty of room to the vehicle I'm overtaking (just in case they swerve around a pothole or some debris - or drop their coffee in their lap). I'll get back on my side of the road well before reaching an oncoming vehicle
Thats all fine and dandy as long as the dickhead in the car doesnt try to kill you, you may well have plenty of time to overtake and get back in but if the car hits you side on by the time you have shat yourself, probably tried braking (bike swerving all over the pla!!!BANG!!!...) head on collision because the time it would have normally took to get out and back in was trippled due to mr numpty nearly knocking you off.

It's ok Alan i do see what your getting at and just trying to see it from all perspectives it's just sh!t like this REALLY winds me up.



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Thats all fine and dandy as long as the dickhead in the car doesnt try to kill you
Yes, in your scenario it would be somewhat difficult to avoid even if you were performing a completely by-the-book overtake. If someone is that determined to knock you off, they will generally succeed.

All you can hope to do is minimise their chances of success by overtaking leaving plenty of space. If you're as far over to the right as possible then they have to swerve a hell of a long way before they are a threat and you will have plenty of warning as you'll see the movement out of their lane. If your closing speed is 20 mph faster than their speed, you only need enough opportunity to lose 20mph in order to avoid an impact.

If you are squeezing past inside a solid white within their lane space, you won't have enough time to react if they decide to swerve to block you. Sure, there may look like there is enough room, but if you treat every other road user like they are out to kill you, the you wouldn't put yourself in that situation. As soon as you assume that another road user isn't out to get you, you're far more vulnerable.
 

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Craigypops
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I must admit to doing a lot of these overtakes myself (it's the only way to get by most the time) but i had never considered that the car driver would deliberatly try to knock you off?... it's beyond my comprehension why someone would do this, and as others have said already, it's basically attempted murder.

This is the first time iv'e heard of this happening and it's certainly opened my eyes, i'll be thinking about this now when i'm out (no bad thing i'm sure) so if something good can come of this sad story then it's that people such as myself might start to think twice in a similar situation and it could save lives.

keep it safe peeps and watch for the nuttas!



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Burtonwood Road in Warrington is a rather narrow road, one lane in each direction, sometimes narrowing to single track (no centre line). See for yourself:
Burtonwood Road, Warrington - Google Maps

I can't imagine how a bike could overtake without crossing to the right-hand side of the road. :confused: Without knowing the details of the event I'd say prima facie that the biker was lucky not the be held liable. But who am I to disagree with the court?
 
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