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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter #21
Re: My new project

A bit tappety is just what it should be. No such thing as a quiet pushrod twin... Loud valves save lives. If there's no valve noise you have to watch out. ;-)
A couple of questions...

Do the valves clearances close up or open up with wear?

Looking at the Haynes manual it suggests re-torquing the head bolts each service. I'm happy to do it but I cant quite get if it means you loosen each bolt quarter of a turn then re-torque one bolt at a time. or do you loosen all of the bolts a quarter of a turn first and then re-torque them?

Today's lesson is not to unscrew the large screw to remove the top cover of the throttle cables at the twistgrip. It was fun getting it back together again.
 

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Deer Dodger
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3,199 Posts
Re: My new project

Just discovered Motorworks are offering free shipping for any orders to UK Mainland placed before the 1st of January so if you need bits could be a good time to get an order together. They have the main stand bushes and also a complete kit including bolts in stainless and springs.




Sadly it don't apply to us sods with a bit of water in the way :(

Thanks for the heads up :thumb:

Went into the garage yesterday, made up a rough shopping list for the old girl, got the reg number etc, phoned up Motorworks ---- bah, closed this Saturday GRRRR :mad:
 

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The Sultan of Bling
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Re: My new project

Thanks for the heads up :thumb:

Went into the garage yesterday, made up a rough shopping list for the old girl, got the reg number etc, phoned up Motorworks ---- bah, closed this Saturday GRRRR :mad:
Orders online qualify as long as they are placed by the tear end, won't be processed of course until thye open again on the 2nd.:hitler:
 

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Bloody furriner
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Re: My new project

Do the valves clearances close up or open up with wear?
No idea. They move around a bit on mine, but not much. It did close up something awful when it needed a valve + seat job.

Looking at the Haynes manual it suggests re-torquing the head bolts each service. I'm happy to do it but I cant quite get if it means you loosen each bolt quarter of a turn then re-torque one bolt at a time. or do you loosen all of the bolts a quarter of a turn first and then re-torque them?
Dunno. I have never done this. Once or twice the first few hundred miles after the head rebuild when it was stripped to the big-end, other than that, never. It's done just over a ton, hasn't been a problem yet.
 

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Re: My new project

Right you lot:D
It is going to cost more than it is worth, but the 65 is a very good bike. I wanted an earlier bike, but Schorsch, my R65, came up and I've spent so much money on it it has to stay. I only named it as I now have Max as well:D Piccies in my signature.
Re main stand, no bushes on a 65. You might get an engineering firm to widen the holes on the frame then get them to make bushes for you.
When the pivot wears, it does make it harder to get on the stand and as you say, only just clears the ground.
To remove the main stand, create yourself a tool. That'll be a 6 mm Allen key with the short end cut even shorter, so that it fits the Allen bolt from the engine side; makes sense when you see it.
Your model is a 1978-80 bike, so 100% definitely unleaded heads. You can put up with carrying additives. Bugger that, I got my heads unleaded and all four guides redone with harder material.
When you have had the heads off and fitted new head gaskets, you need to re-tighten the heads after two hundred miles and boy don't forget it. When I checked my clearances after two hundred miles and re tightening the heads, they were half the gap!
Yes, if you drive carefully and not high speed on motorways, you might get away with not having the heads converted, but I don't want to think about it and I want to ride however I want to.
Whilst you've got the exhausts off, get a Sure-foot side stand, worth every penny, infinitely better than the 65 standard side stand.
Now crack on:thumbup:
 

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Re: My new project

I thought it's the valve seats and not the guides that need to be harder.

At least that was the issue with my old LeMans III.

The OEM Guides worked just fine, but the valve seats got bashed badly without the lead acting as a damper and lubricant.

But that was a Guzzi and everyone knows that an Italian Ingegnere designs everything different compared to a German Ingenieur
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Re: My new project

Right you lot:D
It is going to cost more than it is worth, but the 65 is a very good bike.
Mine is actually a 45 but fitted with 65 barrels. It cost next to nothing so I'm not expecting much in return.

Re main stand, no bushes on a 65. You might get an engineering firm to widen the holes on the frame then get them to make bushes for you.
When the pivot wears, it does make it harder to get on the stand and as you say, only just clears the ground.
To remove the main stand, create yourself a tool. That'll be a 6 mm Allen key with the short end cut even shorter, so that it fits the Allen bolt from the engine side; makes sense when you see it.
Mine has bushes. I've already pulled the stand (and needed to cut down a allen key to do it). Problem is there is pretty much no wear on them and the new ones listed in Motorworks for the 70-80 bikes look wrong. Mine look more like the 80 onwards ones. I guess the stand could be a later addition

Your model is a 1978-80 bike, so 100% definitely unleaded heads. You can put up with carrying additives. Bugger that, I got my heads unleaded and all four guides redone with harder material.
As I say mine has been retrofitted with 650 bits. Are the heads likely to be the original 45 ones or are they changed as part of the 650 conversion and is there any markings on the head to signify it has the hardened valve seats?

When you have had the heads off and fitted new head gaskets, you need to re-tighten the heads after two hundred miles and boy don't forget it. When I checked my clearances after two hundred miles and re tightening the heads, they were half the gap!
Will do

Now crack on:thumbup:
I have been.... Actually the bike is in much better condition that I first thought with no rust whatsoever. I've given it a once over and apart from a service and the pushrod seals it 'could' be on the road. I've ridden worse bikes as daily transport.

I now need to locate the correct tool for removing the finned exhaust clamps. I could almost swear I've seen one lying around my dad's place. Some report success with a chisel anyone here got advice?
 

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2 bikes = twice as happy
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Re: My new project

MI now need to locate the correct tool for removing the finned exhaust clamps. I could almost swear I've seen one lying around my dad's place. Some report success with a chisel anyone here got advice?
I had one, I will go and look in the garage as I am getting bored. Before I bought one I used a chain wrench. It might damage the fins, but with a bit of care works OK.
 

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The Sultan of Bling
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I now need to locate the correct tool for removing the finned exhaust clamps. I could almost swear I've seen one lying around my dad's place. Some report success with a chisel anyone here got advice?
Gordon

I have 2 spanners, happy to post one over and you can send back when you finish if you don't get sorted ( your covering postage of course :)

On. Serious note, some people take a cold chisel or the like to remove them, IMPO it's a bollox and can end in tears. If they have not been removed before its safer to cut a slot in them with a dremel or the like and replace them. Much cheaper than having to replace the heads!!!
 

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2 bikes = twice as happy
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4,354 Posts
Re: My new project

I had one, I will go and look in the garage as I am getting bored. Before I bought one I used a chain wrench. It might damage the fins, but with a bit of care works OK.
Bugger, nope I cant find it - I thought I knew where it was but found a load of plumbing spares and tools in the bag I thought it was in. I doubt I have got rid as I seem to recall paying lots or it and while a specialist tool, it could easily have had other uses. It may be at my brother's or somehow made back to my Mum's. I do now remember giving away the crash bars & pannier frames - good home at the time. When I find the exhaust tool I will also find an original tool kit, a hand pump that stashed inside the centre frame tube, and some other bits and bobs.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Re: My new project

Gordon

I have 2 spanners, happy to post one over and you can send back when you finish if you don't get sorted ( your covering postage of course :)
Thanks for the kind offer Roger. I'll see what turns up at my Dad's or Austin's then if needs be take you up on your kind offer.


Bugger, nope I cant find it - I thought I knew where it was but found a load of plumbing spares and tools in the bag I thought it was in. I doubt I have got rid as I seem to recall paying lots or it and while a specialist tool, it could easily have had other uses. It may be at my brother's or somehow made back to my Mum's. I do now remember giving away the crash bars & pannier frames - good home at the time. When I find the exhaust tool I will also find an original tool kit, a hand pump that stashed inside the centre frame tube, and some other bits and bobs.
If it turns up I'll buy it off you. I'm enjoying working on this old airhead and have an eye on another one.

As Thunder says, when in any doubt, cut them off and get new ones. The thread on the heads is made of cheese, VERY easy to damage.

I replaced mine entirely with a set from Defektes Auspuffgewinde an 2V Boxer BMW? Hier ist die Lsung!
I've seen those and have to admit I prefer the look of the finned nuts but they are a pragmatic solution to a common problem.
 

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The Sultan of Bling
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Re: My new project

One of mine came from Guy Henderson in the US through Adv Rider, he machined a few from billet aluminium, very light and it used the bikes stock wheel not wrench as a handle the idea being it was easy to carry on your travels. Was actually a thing of beauty, it used to sit on my desk as paper weight. :D



 

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Deer Dodger
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3,199 Posts
Re: My new project

Gordon,

I've got one that came with the bike ( along with a full original tool kit :thumbup: :teeth: )

You can have a shot if you wish, I'll need it back at some point to put the old girl back together again.
Get back to me if you wish, but I wouldn't expect to get much sense out of me for the next couple of days or so ;);):D
 

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Re: My new project

I know it's a 45, I can read you know!! :D It's only the barrels, carbs and inlet valves that differentiate; I'm pretty sure the heads are the same.
Kjell, yes it needs harder seats, but after 40-50,000 miles, it is probably wise to replace the guides. Quite frankly though, as I was having the unleaded work done and they were replacing both exhaust valves, it made total economic and safety sense to replace the guides and why not all four, the heads are good for another 50,000 miles.
I agree with Thunder about exhaust clamps. If they're stubborn, dremel through, prise and snap off; FARRRRRRR cheaper than new heads.
Oops, forgot about the main stand bushes, but my originals were perfect, even though I fitted new ones, I still think it would be best to drill the frame mounts and fit slightly oversized bushes. You could offset the holes by a mm or so to give good ground clearance.
 

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Re: My new project

Just checking genuine workshop manual and it looks like the heads are different.
Reason:
R45 bore = 69.995 - 70.015 mm standard
R65 bore = 81.995 - 82.015 mm standard
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Re: My new project

Just checking genuine workshop manual and it looks like the heads are different.
Reason:
R45 bore = 69.995 - 70.015 mm standard
R65 bore = 81.995 - 82.015 mm standard
Valve size would be a better indication as if they are the same there is a good chance they could be placed centrally enough so the one head could cover both sets of barrels. From what I've read the 45 is little more than a sleeved down 65
 

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Re: My new project

R45 inlet 32mm, R65 38mm. R65 inlet may have increased again in 1981.
I cannot find a definitive answer as to whether they use different heads.
Whilst bores are vastly different, I wonder if heads are the same with the squish area taking up the difference.
I'm not going to guess, you're on your own;)
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Re: My new project

Aha!

They increased the R65 inlet to 40mm after 1981.
Still doesn't say if the heads are different:D
The heads will have to be different if the valves are different sizes. That doesn't necessarily mean they aren't interchangeable but Id be surprised if a 65 head fitted on the 45 as the valve would probably hit the edge of the bore.

The 45 heads on the 65 will work and you may well gain low rpm power due to the higher intake speed but at the expense of top end power.
 
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