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The Angry Pasty Muncher
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If the Police run a BikeSafe course in your area that is the very best experience to benchmark your current riding skill and improve your hazard perception.
Agree with that i did mine 10 years ago with the police one of the best days riding you could get and it was free then, now it something like £50 then you claim the £50 back. First thing said to me when we met was "don't ride like you being followed by a policeman or on a test, if you do that i can't assess your ride". On open roads speed limits wee not an issue with them and it was a fun day out with them aswell i enjoyed it i rode my Firestorm for that one


 

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https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/drt04-practical-motor-cycle-test-pass-rates

if you check DRT0421 total test pass rates there's been next to no change since 2009 then it was 69.8% pass 2012-2013 it was 68.9% with nearly 20,000 more tests done in that year so going on their statistics i would interpret that as 20,000 more tests done i a 12mths period and the pass rate only dropped 0.9% i would say the test is quite easy.
Let me get this right.

20,000 more people did the test, and despite your assertion that the test is being made infinitely easier. The pass rate actually dropped by nearly 1%.

The figures also show that nearly 1 third of people actually fail the test.

Can you explain to all your avid readers how tis demonstrates that the motorcycle test is a dumbed down piece of OSS that just costs money to pass?
 

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I've re-read this through a few times, and despite the small number of participants, I'm pretty shocked by the naively of a few of the responses.

Motorcycle Riders are the most vulnerable road users.

I'll exclude pedal cyclists on the basis that they are the only category of road user who basically ignore road traffic signals and directions, have an inability to recognise the danger of filtering up the near side of a vehicle clearly signalling an intention to turn left and have no requirement to pay road fund tax or provide adequate insurance to cover the damage and expense they cause other road users.

We should have rigorous training requirements, we should expect to have some form of ongoing assessment (though at this time we don't), and as a result we should not be surprised that it costs more to gain a license than a car. We represent a tiny percentage of road users, the test requirements are more rigorous, the training facilities less plentiful.

At the same time we include within our fraternity a significant number of individuals prepared to ignore common sense, speed limits, traffic signals and instructions in the single minded pursuit of going as fast as they can, more often than not whilst recording the event for YouTube.

A very small minority of bikers ride for the pure pleasure of being on two wheels.

You'll recognise us most often in the late autumn, winter and early spring. We are the guys and gals who use our bikes every day, despite the weather. We often rock up and give our time for free at the weekends to help the local training centre carry out CBT's, or Marshall charity bike rides. We are likely to avoid our favourite roads on sunny weekends to avoid the dangerous antics of fair weather riders.

In hot weather you'll take pity on us melting in our protective gear whilst other motorcyclists whizz by with wanton abandon in shorts and a T-Shirt.

But you'll also envy our photo albums, for the vistas we have witnessed on the little used passes of the English countryside, or the majesty of the French Alps, Spanish Interior, Mediterranean Coast, Moroccan Ferry crossings, roadside tyre repairs, on the fly use of duct tape..... The list is endless.

If you are serious about two wheels it's a way of life, ever day, and you are unlikely to have an accident unless it is completely unpredictable.

But most of the guys I encounter on these sites, well lets be frank, it's a hobby at best, a dangerous addiction at worst.

Apologies to those I would have an affinity with, but complaining about toughening up on training, beyond belief.
 

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Motorcycle Riders are the most vulnerable road users.
Agreed
I'll exclude pedal cyclists on the basis that they are the only category of road user who basically ignore road traffic signals and directions, have an inability to recognise the danger of filtering up the near side of a vehicle clearly signalling an intention to turn left and have no requirement to pay road fund tax or provide adequate insurance to cover the damage and expense they cause other road users.
Disagree, you're just falling for the usual bull$hit typecasting that cyclists are subject to, I don't care how many cyclists you've seen going through a red light or how many you've seen hopping up onto the pavement you are in no position to state crap like that Tim, if you're going to get into such bull then lets label ourselves with the usual anti-motorcycling bull that is perpetuated.
We should have rigorous training requirements,
Agreed, lets do the same with car drivers too.
we should expect to have some form of ongoing assessment (though at this time we don't), and as a result we should not be surprised that it costs more to gain a license than a car. We represent a tiny percentage of road users, the test requirements are more rigorous, the training facilities less plentiful.
Sort of agreed but we all know that it could never be put into practice

At the same time we include within our fraternity a significant number of individuals prepared to ignore common sense, speed limits, traffic signals and instructions in the single minded pursuit of going as fast as they can, more often than not whilst recording the event for YouTube.
Agreed (ish) there are a few, true but it's these twits that give us a bad name (er, cyclist, red light?)

A very small minority of bikers ride for the pure pleasure of being on two wheels.

You'll recognise us most often in the late autumn, winter and early spring. We are the guys and gals who use our bikes every day, despite the weather. We often rock up and give our time for free at the weekends to help the local training centre carry out CBT's, or Marshall charity bike rides. We are likely to avoid our favourite roads on sunny weekends to avoid the dangerous antics of fair weather riders.
Are you for real or are you just trying to get a reaction?

In hot weather you'll take pity on us melting in our protective gear whilst other motorcyclists whizz by with wanton abandon in shorts and a T-Shirt.

If you are serious about two wheels it's a way of life, ever day, and you are unlikely to have an accident unless it is completely unpredictable.

But most of the guys I encounter on these sites, well lets be frank, it's a hobby at best, a dangerous addiction at worst.
I've got to say that I don't feel that you are aiming this at me personally (especially seeing as this is my first reply in this thread) but what I'm about to say could be taken as if it comes from someone that thinks that it was aimed at that person, who do you think you are? you are painting yourself as some kind of motorcycling savior...
Apologies to those I would have an affinity with, but complaining about toughening up on training, beyond belief.
Just an opinion mind...
 

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Originally Posted by TimClynes
In hot weather you'll take pity on us melting in our protective gear whilst other motorcyclists whizz by with wanton abandon in shorts and a T-Shirt.

If you are serious about two wheels it's a way of life, ever day, and you are unlikely to have an accident unless it is completely unpredictable.

But most of the guys I encounter on these sites, well lets be frank, it's a hobby at best, a dangerous addiction at worst.
I've got to say that I don't feel that you are aiming this at me personally (especially seeing as this is my first reply in this thread) but what I'm about to say could be taken as if it comes from someone that thinks that it was aimed at that person, who do you think you are? you are painting yourself as some kind of motorcycling savior...

Not at all, but very few motorcycle riders clock up more than 2000 miles a year, about 25% the average car driver, and they condense that into a smattering of fair weather weekends.

So the minority use it every day, an even smaller minority only hold a motorcycle license.

I am strongly suggesting that most of the participants I encounter on these sites fall within the first category, folk who like to ride when it's warm and dry, but have limited road craft.
 

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Originally Posted by Bolty
I'll exclude pedal cyclists on the basis that they are the only category of road user who basically ignore road traffic signals and directions, have an inability to recognise the danger of filtering up the near side of a vehicle clearly signalling an intention to turn left and have no requirement to pay road fund tax or provide adequate insurance to cover the damage and expense they cause other road users.

Disagree, you're just falling for the usual bull$hit typecasting that cyclists are subject to, I don't care how many cyclists you've seen going through a red light or how many you've seen hopping up onto the pavement you are in no position to state crap like that Tim, if you're going to get into such bull then lets label ourselves with the usual anti-motorcycling bull that is perpetuated.
Just read your profile, Push bike salesman, born again biker, so I can at least understand your bias.
 

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Just read your profile, Push bike salesman, born again biker, so I can at least understand your bias.
exchange the word bias for the words "open mind" and you're there Tim

You can't pigeon hole people like that and get away with with it.

let me know when your mind is open, we'll organise a party.
 

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exchange the word bias for the words "open mind" and you're there Tim

You can't pigeon hole people like that and get away with with it.

let me know when your mind is open, we'll organise a party.
I don't question that you have an open mind Bolty, I'm a short ride away from you in North Manchester, and your AT is the forerunner to my Alp, we could get out for a run sometime.

You pigeon holed yourself with your response to my comments regarding pedal cyclists.

I'm not pretending that I don't expect my post to get a few back's up, home truths have a habit of doing that.

Internet forums are not about 'getting away with it', but I do think they should from time to time stimulate debate on more important subjects, and I'd rate this up there in terms of Mtrcycle Road Safety.
 

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I don't question that you have an open mind Bolty, I'm a short ride away from you in North Manchester, and your AT is the forerunner to my Alp, we could get out for a run sometime.

You pigeon holed yourself with your response to my comments regarding pedal cyclists.

I'm not pretending that I don't expect my post to get a few back's up, home truths have a habit of doing that.

Internet forums are not about 'getting away with it', but I do think they should from time to time stimulate debate on more important subjects, and I'd rate this up there in terms of Mtrcycle Road Safety.
If by pigeon holed you mean not judging an entire group by the actions of a few then I'm guilty Tim.

To be honest (and you may not believe me) you haven't got my back up, it's just a view and I'm not the least bit pi$$ed off, I'd be up for a ride sometime.
one more point before I depart to the land of Nod, the "home truths" bit above, it's not a home truth, it's bull !

See you at the National perhaps if not before Tim?
 

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If by pigeon holed you mean not judging an entire group by the actions of a few then I'm guilty Tim.

To be honest (and you may not believe me) you haven't got my back up, it's just a view and I'm not the least bit pi$$ed off, I'd be up for a ride sometime.
one more point before I depart to the land of Nod, the "home truths" bit above, it's not a home truth, it's bull !

See you at the National perhaps if not before Tim?
Pedal cyclists are a danger to themselves and all around them.

I video them daily on the way to work, you'd think an divot would do a shoulder check before pulling into the flow O'd traffic behind them, all of which is travelling faster. Perhaps they assume all road traffic is anticipating their idiocy and losing speed to give them room.

If you see my comments as bull**** I'm fine with that, perhaps you'd have a different view if you'd spent more than 1 year out of 19 on motorcycles.

I don't rallies.

When I said I avoid some of my favourite roads on sunny days I meant it with feeling. I'm not risking my brides, or my own, life riding over Rivington Pike, Belont, Horseshoe Pass, Cat & Fiddle, Snakes Pass, KirbyLonsdale etc on a busy summers day amongst fools who take the tourists line through bends, or run wide on a left hander when they go in too fast and hit the brakes.
 

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The Angry Pasty Muncher
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I've re-read this through a few times, and despite the small number of participants, I'm pretty shocked by the naively of a few of the responses.

Motorcycle Riders are the most vulnerable road users.

I'll exclude pedal cyclists on the basis that they are the only category of road user who basically ignore road traffic signals and directions, have an inability to recognise the danger of filtering up the near side of a vehicle clearly signalling an intention to turn left and have no requirement to pay road fund tax or provide adequate insurance to cover the damage and expense they cause other road users.

We should have rigorous training requirements, we should expect to have some form of ongoing assessment (though at this time we don't), and as a result we should not be surprised that it costs more to gain a license than a car. We represent a tiny percentage of road users, the test requirements are more rigorous, the training facilities less plentiful.

At the same time we include within our fraternity a significant number of individuals prepared to ignore common sense, speed limits, traffic signals and instructions in the single minded pursuit of going as fast as they can, more often than not whilst recording the event for YouTube.

A very small minority of bikers ride for the pure pleasure of being on two wheels.

You'll recognise us most often in the late autumn, winter and early spring. We are the guys and gals who use our bikes every day, despite the weather. We often rock up and give our time for free at the weekends to help the local training centre carry out CBT's, or Marshall charity bike rides. We are likely to avoid our favourite roads on sunny weekends to avoid the dangerous antics of fair weather riders.

In hot weather you'll take pity on us melting in our protective gear whilst other motorcyclists whizz by with wanton abandon in shorts and a T-Shirt.

But you'll also envy our photo albums, for the vistas we have witnessed on the little used passes of the English countryside, or the majesty of the French Alps, Spanish Interior, Mediterranean Coast, Moroccan Ferry crossings, roadside tyre repairs, on the fly use of duct tape..... The list is endless.

If you are serious about two wheels it's a way of life, ever day, and you are unlikely to have an accident unless it is completely unpredictable.

But most of the guys I encounter on these sites, well lets be frank, it's a hobby at best, a dangerous addiction at worst.

Apologies to those I would have an affinity with, but complaining about toughening up on training, beyond belief.
Bravo bravo what a speech, did you write it yourself or get an advisor to do it for you??

However very little of it relates to anything in the title of the thread which is "NEW TEST RULES". As i 've said before the wife did her test last year and there was nothing in all the test that she did that was different from when i did mine 20 years ago with the exception of the theory test.
All they have done is broke it down and dragged out the training to make more money out of it.
As for restricted licenses they are a load of bull aswell. My father works for a franchised dealer and they fitted restrictor kits to bikes ever since the restricted licenses came in. When the wife bought the SV after passing her test i put the restrictor kit back in for her to ride it she had the certificate from the fitter that fitted it originally but no proof i fitted back into the bike. I went across the road to my Suzuki dealership and asked them what to do before i let her contact her insurance firm. They said don't worry about they never ask for proof and if they do, come back and the shop would write a letter for me on headed paper saying it was fitted to give to her insurance firm.
I queried that with father he said the same thing in nearly 20 years of fitting restrictor kits he has never had a police officer come in and query any vehicle or an insurance firm phone up asking for proof that one was fitted. The wife sent of the original certificate from when the kit was fitted from the supplier some years before and the insurance firm accepted that with no question or proof it was in the bike.

Nice to see though you are all for the nanny state and health and safety seeing you think we should "All expect further training"
 

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I think they should introduce an IQ test as part of the course.
I was stopped at a bus stop, as close as I could get due to parked cars, while the loading doors were open I had a motor scooter pass on the inside. My favourite is when extending the wheelchair ramp as they come past, get it right and they don't see it until the impact. The worse I see seem to be learners on the fast food delivery scooters.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

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The worse I see seem to be learners on the fast food delivery scooters.
Now there's one I think should be dealt with, I think you should only be allowed to re-take your CBT and ride on L-Plates a certain amount of times before having to do further training - the theory test at least!

The delivery riders on L-plates who just redo a CBT every 2 years continually are a danger to road users
 

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Now there's one I think should be dealt with, I think you should only be allowed to re-take your CBT and ride on L-Plates a certain amount of times before having to do further training - the theory test at least!

The delivery riders on L-plates who just redo a CBT every 2 years continually are a danger to road users
I'll read up on that, I'm the 90's a CBT was valid for two years but failure to pass your test resulted in a compulsory one year ban for provisional motorcycle entitlement.

You can ride, and always could, a moped on a full car license without L Plates after a CBT.

Given that Pizza Delivery scooter is a vehicle used for commerce a learner should not be able to do it.

It lacks common sense in terms of safety.
 

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As for restricted licenses they are a load of bull aswell. My father works for a franchised dealer and they fitted restrictor kits to bikes ever since the restricted licenses came in. When the wife bought the SV after passing her test i put the restrictor kit back in for her to ride it she had the certificate from the fitter that fitted it originally but no proof i fitted back into the bike. I went across the road to my Suzuki dealership and asked them what to do before i let her contact her insurance firm. They said don't worry about they never ask for proof and if they do, come back and the shop would write a letter for me on headed paper saying it was fitted to give to her insurance firm.
I queried that with father he said the same thing in nearly 20 years of fitting restrictor kits he has never had a police officer come in and query any vehicle or an insurance firm phone up asking for proof that one was fitted. The wife sent of the original certificate from when the kit was fitted from the supplier some years before and the insurance firm accepted that with no question or proof it was in
Utter nonsense.

Do your research, you will note an increase in riders involved in accidents that are 'unlicensed' at document check.

These are the folk who passed their test restricted and thought that after 2 years they had a full 'A' license, which they did not unless they sent it off to DVLA to be upgraded, or had their vehicle inspected by the crash investigator who found either no restrictor kit, or a disabled or non compliant restrictor kit.

A small minority are riding on a ban.
 

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These are the folk who passed their test restricted and thought that after 2 years they had a full 'A' license, which they did not unless they sent it off to DVLA
can you show me where that is the case?

every bit of information I have read states that the restriction is automatically lifted after 2 years as per this from the DVLA

Once the two-year qualifying period has elapsed, you may ride any size motorcycle.It is not necessary to have the restriction 25kw, removed from your licence.

However, if you wish to have the restriction removed then please fill in a D1 application form, (available from the Post Office® or from the DVLA ordering service at www.direct.gov.uk/motoring), applying for an exchange licence and return it to the Agency with your licence.

Please include a covering letter stating that you wish to have the two-year motorcycle restriction removed. A fee of £20.00 will be required.


You can ride, and always could, a moped on a full car license without L Plates after a CBT.
only if you passed your test before 2001
 

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Ian,

DVLA will have you registered to have entitlement to Full A class 2 years after the anniversary of your test, but you WILL NOT hold a full A Class license until you have sent license off to be updated.

And that is where your problems start if you are involved in an accident.

Your statement of fact for your insurance is likely to have 2 faults that will invalidate your insurance;

Unless it's been updated, you will not HOLD a license to ride a high power machine.

You are likely to have used the year you passed your restricted test to calculate the number of years you have held a license.

So I agree that, yes, the entitlement is automatic after 2 years, you don't hold the license until you send it off.

Your motorcycle training school will usually remind you of this if you take a restricted test.
 

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The Angry Pasty Muncher
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Ian,

DVLA will have you registered to have entitlement to Full A class 2 years after the anniversary of your test, but you WILL NOT hold a full A Class license until you have sent license off to be updated.

And that is where your problems start if you are involved in an accident.

Your statement of fact for your insurance is likely to have 2 faults that will invalidate your insurance;

Unless it's been updated, you will not HOLD a license to ride a high power machine.

You are likely to have used the year you passed your restricted test to calculate the number of years you have held a license.

So I agree that, yes, the entitlement is automatic after 2 years, you don't hold the license until you send it off.

Your motorcycle training school will usually remind you of this if you take a restricted test.
That shouldn't be an issue as the back of your license in the cat groups, and with that gives you the date that the restriction finishes so aslong as you are riding restricted until the final date on that license it's not an issue as best i can tell
 

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That shouldn't be an issue as the back of your license in the cat groups, and with that gives you the date that the restriction finishes so aslong as you are riding restricted until the final date on that license it's not an issue as best i can tell
It is an issue, google it, it's been through the Insurance Ombudsman at appeal.
 
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