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21st Century Schizoid Man
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Been reading this book recently and on page 23, it says; "Remember that, even in daylight, up to a third of other road users will not even realise you are there".

I think it goes up to 50 per cent at night...

Sobering thought. Explains such a lot.

I ride in what I think is a pretty high visibility style and wear floursecent gear in subdued lighting if I can, use a white helmet. But, thinking about the occasions in just the last few weeks where other road users have looked straight at me, for several seconds, and then gone and done something that suggests to me that they didn't 'see' me at all... I think there's some psychology at work here. We're not just small vehicles, we're also fluid and fast moving, we don't provide much of an obastacle in their world and so they don't tend to consider us as 'there'. We pass through, we nip round, we're gone from sight as quickly as we arrived. Psychologically, we do not enter their awareness as, in most instances, we're not actually 'there' in the same way another car, van or lorry is.

The other point that I took from the first couple of chapters that gave me reason to pause was that in most instances, the accidents any of us has had will have been caused by and be the fault of another road user - usually a car. A result can be that we imagine (ok, I'm talking abut me, so I imagine) that there's a limited amount for me to learn from it as it was all caused by someone else. Of course, the result is, I tend to carry on doing whatever it was that got me into that pickle in the first place - irrespective of who's 'fault' it is, I can still learn from it and that's as true of near misses as it is of actual accidents.

Good book...

Worth a read.
 

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The other point that I took from the first couple of chapters that gave me reason to pause was that in most instances, the accidents any of us has had will have been caused by and be the fault of another road user - usually a car. A result can be that we imagine (ok, I'm talking abut me, so I imagine) that there's a limited amount for me to learn from it as it was all caused by someone else. Of course, the result is, I tend to carry on doing whatever it was that got me into that pickle in the first place - irrespective of who's 'fault' it is, I can still learn from it and that's as true of near misses as it is of actual accidents.

Good book...

Worth a read.
Hence the value of riding ( & driving) defensively, ie. allowing for the actions of every other road user as they may impact upon you ( hopefully not in the literal sense)
 

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21st Century Schizoid Man
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hence the value of riding ( & driving) defensively, ie. allowing for the actions of every other road user as they may impact upon you ( hopefully not in the literal sense)
aint that the truth!
 

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Steve, I read the book a number of times and tried to put all of the techniques into practice.

IAM and RoSPA use this book to teach advanced riding, and it was on the IAM course that I had the text book knowledge stepped up a number of levels due to the experience of the observers I rode with.

But yes, an excellent book, there's a new one out called Mind Driving by Stephen Haley, which is sat on my "To Read" pile... I'll get to it eventually :D
 

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Matron
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When I did some advanced training with the police the message we were given is that even though you may not be technically at fault you should be able to anticipate what other road users are going to do by road positioning, eye contact and that sort of thing. Therefore the majority of accidents are potentially preventable.

When we were doing our assessed drive we had to commentate, which helped me look for potential hazards and adjust my drivng / riding appropriately.
 

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21st Century Schizoid Man
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Cie - I've been toying with joining a local RoSPA group with that in mind. Time's always an issue for me.
Mabel - I had a police trainer when I returned to two wheels back in the 90s and he was big on eye contact. It went something like, "if they don't make eye contact, assume they haven't seen you".
For the rest, the information is usually all there, but what I see now is defferent from what I saw before I was knocked off a couple of times back then. Different things and events have acquired significance as I appreciate their ability to hurt me, perhaps.

So much to learn. Until I got the AT, going off road was no more than a distant idea but now, it's a real possibility. A whole new range of riding skills to develop though and - at 50, mind you - I'm still working on my roadcraft..! :laughing7:
Plus it really is my only transport so, until it isn't, it gets kid gloves...
Ciao
Steve C
 

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Welcome to my world Steve.

My AT is needed every day to commute on, I'm continuing with the IAM stuff (and may have a bash at the RoSPA course) on it, and living on the edge of Salisbury Plain I get it muddy there too.

The thing with the off roading for me is that it's trail riding, not moto-cross. I won't do fast, there are just too many down sides.
 

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whys the rum always gone?
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i wouldnt mind having a read of this wheres the best place to buy it:D
 

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Waterstone's have it, so I expect most stores will have it as well. Try Amazon.

Amongst many other things I like the brain washing (repeated countless times) about being able to stop safetly within your vision on your own side of the road. It's really stuck in my head.
 

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whys the rum always gone?
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Waterstone's have it, so I expect most stores will have it as well. Try Amazon.

Amongst many other things I like the brain washing (repeated countless times) about being able to stop safetly within your vision on your own side of the road. It's really stuck in my head.
cool theres a waterstones not far from me:mrgreen:
 

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21st Century Schizoid Man
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Welcome to my world Steve.

My AT is needed every day to commute on, ...and living on the edge of Salisbury Plain I get it muddy there too.
quote]
Sounds like you could teach me a thing or ten! :D
 

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21st Century Schizoid Man
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
i wouldnt mind having a read of this wheres the best place to buy it:D
I went to Amazon Chad, then hit one of their 'buy it new or secondhand from £x" buttons and got it delivered brand new for eight quid I think. Could have got cheaper, can't remember.
 

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Geeking it out!
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I would just like to add another book which is a good accompaniment to the Police handbook, this is "Not The Blue Book" written by Dave Jones a police motorcycle instructor. website

I saw an ad for it in the pages of Motorcycle Sport and Leisure IMHO a well spent 9 quid, It's only about 60 pages long but has some tips and advice not found in the police book.

Image uploading. Refresh page to view
 

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Brrrummm!
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Hi All,

My early driving skills in the 60’s were honed on National Rallying and absorbing the driving skills and the physiological approaches of the Scandinavians. Eric Carlson (Swedish Ace Driver) said that concentration was a driver’s best attribute. I have used this as a foundation for all my driving, whether it is quick motors, HGVs and now returning to bikes. My three offspring have also adopted this key attribute and promise to be good drivers.

Leading up to getting the TA, I took advantage of Derbyshire’s Bike Safe programme at Swains in Buxton (PoliceTrainer) and also bought a copy of ‘The Police Rider’s Handbook …’ (Eleventh Impression 2006). It is a study book and I go back to it regularly just to check that my observations and actions are safe. I might add that I have had a Cat A Licence for over 40 years and still willing to learn road craft.

I watch other drivers like a hawk, head movements, can I see their eyes, is the car’s front wheels slowly turning, is the driver being pressurised by other vehicles? If they do some thing unexpected where is my escape route and safe action? And many more visual pieces of information are being processed in the grey matter – keep your distance, stay off the shiny bits in the wet, position, speed and gear as the book says, but it is allot to absorb in milliseconds so if you lack concentration any thing might happen. HGV training etches on your brain ‘Hazards, hazards, hazards and Mirrors, mirrors, mirrors’, so apply this to bike riding, stay alert and anticipate …

I don’t expect any other road user to see me on a bike. I agree that motorists do not ‘see’ a bike. It has a thin silhouette to them and they probably focus on much larger vehicles such as busses, trucks and cars.

My safe riding approach is to try to break up the motorist’s standard image of an on coming motorcyclist. First I wear a white helmet – you do not see many except worn by ‘police riders’. I wear a non-black jacket with two hi-viz yellow armbands. The front TA image is broken by two fog lights and on the handle bar hand guards a white reflective triangle that gives width to the approaching red vehicle (TA bike). I am hoping that this non-standard image will cause the motorist to think twice and take a second look and not make any irrational moves that causes me to take evasive action.

I am still learning bike craft and road craft and will continue to do so. IAM is on my list as a ‘must do’ just so that I know I am on the way to even safer biking. As part of my rapid training programme I am off to the BMW Off-Road Course at the end of the week so I can learn how not to ‘drop with style’ and recover safely. Should be a great weekend. As for the book, The Police Rider's Handbook, (ISBN 0-11-341143-X), it should play a prominent part in all motorcycle AND car licence theory testing. Just concentrate!

Soap box closed and Safe riding,
Mark
 
G

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Hi All,

My early driving skills in the 60’s were honed on National Rallying and absorbing the driving skills and the physiological approaches of the Scandinavians. Eric Carlson (Swedish Ace Driver) said that concentration was a driver’s best attribute. I have used this as a foundation for all my driving, whether it is quick motors, HGVs and now returning to bikes. My three offspring have also adopted this key attribute and promise to be good drivers.

Leading up to getting the TA, I took advantage of Derbyshire’s Bike Safe programme at Swains in Buxton (PoliceTrainer) and also bought a copy of ‘The Police Rider’s Handbook …’ (Eleventh Impression 2006). It is a study book and I go back to it regularly just to check that my observations and actions are safe. I might add that I have had a Cat A Licence for over 40 years and still willing to learn road craft.

I watch other drivers like a hawk, head movements, can I see their eyes, is the car’s front wheels slowly turning, is the driver being pressurised by other vehicles? If they do some thing unexpected where is my escape route and safe action? And many more visual pieces of information are being processed in the grey matter – keep your distance, stay off the shiny bits in the wet, position, speed and gear as the book says, but it is allot to absorb in milliseconds so if you lack concentration any thing might happen. HGV training etches on your brain ‘Hazards, hazards, hazards and Mirrors, mirrors, mirrors’, so apply this to bike riding, stay alert and anticipate …

I don’t expect any other road user to see me on a bike. I agree that motorists do not ‘see’ a bike. It has a thin silhouette to them and they probably focus on much larger vehicles such as busses, trucks and cars.

My safe riding approach is to try to break up the motorist’s standard image of an on coming motorcyclist. First I wear a white helmet – you do not see many except worn by ‘police riders’. I wear a non-black jacket with two hi-viz yellow armbands. The front TA image is broken by two fog lights and on the handle bar hand guards a white reflective triangle that gives width to the approaching red vehicle (TA bike). I am hoping that this non-standard image will cause the motorist to think twice and take a second look and not make any irrational moves that causes me to take evasive action.

I am still learning bike craft and road craft and will continue to do so. IAM is on my list as a ‘must do’ just so that I know I am on the way to even safer biking. As part of my rapid training programme I am off to the BMW Off-Road Course at the end of the week so I can learn how not to ‘drop with style’ and recover safely. Should be a great weekend. As for the book, The Police Rider's Handbook, (ISBN 0-11-341143-X), it should play a prominent part in all motorcycle AND car licence theory testing. Just concentrate!

Soap box closed and Safe riding,
Mark
Jees thats a lot to take in:confused: I just sit on the thing and play with the levers:D
 

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Brrrummm!
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317 Posts
So do I,
BUT its the processor which is controlling the sensors and hands and feet! The cpu needs a proven programme, say written in Basic or Perl or Java Script or even 'xrv.org' with contributions from members! Just a thought.

Mark
 

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21st Century Schizoid Man
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2,428 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
...and on the handle bar hand guards a white reflective triangle that gives width to the approaching red vehicle (TA bike)... Mark
Great idea! :hello1: Did you find them locally or are they something special?
Thanks
Steve C
 
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