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The psych with the bike
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Having read the thresd about my local burglar, thought i'd ask the question about Miss Shoesmith.

A child dies, nastiliy, her department has a responsibility for the childs welfare, it is failing and poorly managed. A pretty Daming report from Ofsted states this.

The Sec State removes her from her post - he is allowed to do this. Her employers later dismiss her.

Now she wins an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal and it would seem be in line for substantial compensation.

She now states she only did this in th einterests of Justice, she doesnt do blame and that the Ofsted report was wrong.

Lets look at this. OK it would appear that the proper process was not followed. however should this also mean that the decison to dismiss was wrong.

Shall we discuss.

I'll kick it off.

I think this woman shouldnt have been sacked. Why? her employers shouldn't have had the opportunity. She should have accepted her responsibility and held her self accountable and resigned. She should now shut up accept her fate and dissapear, she says she gets pointed at on the bus, and is abused. If she wasn't on our TV's every five minutes bleeting "Oh wo is me" then no one would know what she looked like. my advice to her would be shut up, move change your hairstyle and accept your responsibility.

I too am in a position where i am accountable for something me and others accept when we signed our contracts that if a certain event happens then we pack our bags and go. Our leaders dont they wait for the sec state to tell them to go so the Politicians are seen to have their pound of flesh. whilst this is not written in our contracts it is an implicit aspect of the posts we hold and the responsibilities and level of accountability that we hold for it.

As you can probably guess i am not enamoured by ms S
 

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whys the rum always gone?
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you and me both , but this is indicative of everything thats wrong with this country at the moment , the wrong Doer's get rewarded and the do gooders get kicked in the teeth
 

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I agree with the sentiment entirely but the fact is that the law is there to protect us all even if we are a wrong doer. Until you have been booted out unceremoniously, like I was, and your only ally is the law you will not know how it feels. I'm sure she was probably invited to tender her resignation but if she considered that personally she had done no wrong I can appreciate why she probably didn't. Making someone a scapegoat does not alter the facts. The people responsible are behind bars, I seem to recall the case workers escaped by the skin of their teeth and, of course, there was a scapegoat who was sacrificed to make politicians etc look good. Due procedure should have been followed and this would not have occurred. In another thread I stated that knowing the facts was most important before forming an opinion. Having said that it does not stop anyone from having one. In my case the other side didn't have the guts for a day in court and my brief advised me to settle out of court because if it did go to tribunal that judgement would go in my favour but remedy would not because they would plead 'Polkey' and there may be no award at all. The legals reading this will know about it, sometimes the law is illogical and cruel.
 

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Administrator
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I don't like scape-goating either, but she was the top dog, and with that comes responsibility ... "the buck stops here". She should have accepted responsibility for failings in her department, and resigned. but given that she didn't, sacking was justified (although it seems Mr Balls didn't conduct himself at all well in doing so!) I don't think her background was in Social Services, which might in part explain why action was not taken until too late - someone with a firm grounding in social work might have been more aware of the vital necessity for immediate action in such cases. I have to say, too, that she didn't come over at all well in Humphrys' interview this morning.
 

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Fine, upstanding member
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She should have resigned, but as she didn't, the due process had to be followed. Even the Sun this morning said that!

But don't assume that she is in line for a big compensation pay-out. It may turn out that the Employment Tribunal will find that even though the procedure was wrong, the case for dismissal was unanswerable so the damages will be next to nowt.

Watch this space...

As for the Humphreys interview, I turned the radio off. I neither want to hear her account, nor the attempts by journalists to get her to say certain words. The real story is about children in care: not about Ms Shoesmith or what she might or might not say.
 

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..."the buck stops here"...
Surely the buck should actually stop with the Minister responsible for that Department?
Just my two penneth...

Joe
(a Civil Servant, as it happens)
 

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SOTGATT
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3,522 Posts
Wherever the buck stops is where the resposibility rests...BUT

Where the buck 'starts' is where the problem starts and where we should begin to look and continue upwards.

Don't hold yer breath though.....people covering their @rses all the way........so would you.

Sad in so many ways.
 

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She may have been useless (I think we can all think of a lot more senior managers etc) but she did not kill that kid. The usual media frenzy and politicians jumping on the back of it on top of youngsters firing out kids (I know... I have em in my family)coz it's cool and everyone else pays the bills. We do not know the full facts of how they are funded blah blah blah. I have a social worker friend who is under incredible pressure in their job trying to keep on top of people in trouble. It is not easy...
 

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whys the rum always gone?
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I have a social worker friend who is under incredible pressure in their job trying to keep on top of people in trouble. It is not easy...
Correct and every step of the way she will be hamperd by her superior . on and on up the chain , with penny pinching cuts that leads to under staffing making the job harder , so the buck does stop much further up the chain , troops cannot do their jobs properly if they are led by Cretins !!!
 

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[
QUOTE=Joe Crow;578566]Surely the buck should actually stop with the Minister responsible for that Department?
Just my two penneth...

Joe
(a Civil Servant, as it happens)[/QUOTE]

+1

there is no money. They keep re-organising and then they simply blame the Social Worker

(wife is an experienced SW.. most of them are being replaced with Newly Qualified 20smthings who are cheaper and easier to influence than a mature well Qualified worldly wise no nonsense client driven person ( all Social workers need degrees,, odd that any one can call themselves an Engineer in this country but well Qualified folk who have to deal with the sh1te most of us walk away from are treated as just Workers?? )

Bottom line .. no money and pish poor target driven management ... the buck is firmly with HMG....

Most Social worker do it because it what they want to do…

Their management is driven by career and targets

Rant over.... difference to world? zero.....
 
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