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Discussion Starter #41
Mmm.. Ok. I may consider that approach. I never intended to change the head bearings but as I had to replace the bent lower yoke i was forced into this nightmare
 

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Mmm.. Ok. I may consider that approach. I never intended to change the head bearings but as I had to replace the bent lower yoke i was forced into this nightmare
You have to keep going and get that bottom outer race out when you have done that clean all the damage up with the dremel grinding wheel making sure none of the damage is proud of the original finish, dress the stem up with a file again just enough to make it flush or just below the original finish.

Ideally you need a drift for the outer races that is a few thou smaller than the OD I used a socket spanner then freeze the race and warm the headstock with a heatgun run some high temp grease around the housing then tap the race in. You could also pull the races in from each end by rigging something up using threaded bar.

To put the inner race on the stem all you need to do is boil it in oil it will simply fall on having gained size while hot, all you need do is have something handy to make sure it is sat right down to the yoke I used a long tube spanner that happened to be the right size it was a clearance fit over the stem and long enough to stand above the top of it so I could tap/seat the race down you need to be quick as the race will cool and tighten almost instantly, its best to have the yoke/stem held in a vice so it won't move The hardest part about it is not getting burnt while doing the job :)
 

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Discussion Starter #43
oh blimey.

i can see this going even more wrong


You have to keep going and get that bottom outer race out when you have done that clean all the damage up with the dremel grinding wheel making sure none of the damage is proud of the original finish, dress the stem up with a file again just enough to make it flush or just below the original finish.

Ideally you need a drift for the outer races that is a few thou smaller than the OD I used a socket spanner then freeze the race and warm the headstock with a heatgun run some high temp grease around the housing then tap the race in. You could also pull the races in from each end by rigging something up using threaded bar.

To put the inner race on the stem all you need to do is boil it in oil it will simply fall on having gained size while hot, all you need do is have something handy to make sure it is sat right down to the yoke I used a long tube spanner that happened to be the right size it was a clearance fit over the stem and long enough to stand above the top of it so I could tap/seat the race down you need to be quick as the race will cool and tighten almost instantly, its best to have the yoke/stem held in a vice so it won't move The hardest part about it is not getting burnt while doing the job :)
 

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oh blimey.

i can see this going even more wrong
Dont you have any friends, anybody near you, who has a little more engineering acumen than you do?

You could end up with a pile of scrap metal if you carry on with this same cack handed enthusiasm. ;)
 

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Steady now...

Ok, that has not been the most successful of tries, but it doesn't look like there's anything that cannot be salvaged there. Don't lose faith. You can still get it done.

I agree that the best thing to do is to use files / sandpaper to smooth the gauges on the yoke shaft and then slide / tap the inner race onto it. Don't use aggressive grit / power tools not to make things worse. When you are done, make sure you heat the race first while at least leaving the [dressed] yoke outside, if not in the freezer before you try to mate them. Try to do it quickly and not allow the temp to equalise before you get the race on. it is amazing how much steel contracts/expands with temperature. A spanner / bit of pipe, or even careful tapping around with a drift will help drive it home. You will know when they are seated as the feel/sound changes. Place the [remains of the] old race on top of the new one. If you can't boil the new one in oil, use a heat-gun or blowtorch and a pair of pliers to handle it when it is hot. Don't forget to install the dust seal first!

Personally, I wouldn't hammer the yoke to seat the assembled bearing. I think that risks distorting the bearing and producing the same effect that makes the bearing notchy. Once you remove the remaining bits and smooth it over with very fine sandpaper... I would use sockets of similar size, as already mentioned; You can usually use old races to help tap the new ones in with, but you are unlikely to be able to do that. Sockets. Either tap them in or use a threaded bolt to draw them in. Again, make sure the races spent the night in the freezer, give the headstock a warm up with heat-gun and use grease.

Chin-up mate. You'll get it done. And then you'll be proud that you managed it yourself.
Besides, come Zombie apocalypse, you'll be laughing as you'll be able to keep your bike running when others are getting their brains chewed on. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #46
i'm still yet to remove the race from the bottom end of the yoke

i have a heat gun and one of these ordered...

s-l1600.jpg

when it ever stops raining i will carry on with the job, but without a garage, its rather tricky

by the way a 'proper' garage quoted me about 3 hours labour + parts for this job (ie £220). but...."only if everything on your bike comes apart ok"

so standby for more "cack-handedness"
 

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''by the way a 'proper' garage quoted me about 3 hours labour + parts for this job (ie £220). but...."only if everything on your bike comes apart ok"

Haha that's better than being able to put 10% on a estimate ----- like it took twice as long everything was seized up.

Best of luck with it you need to get that bottom race out.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
yes, all the "just dremel a crack in it and it will just come apart with a tap" advice is nonsense. these things are hardened steel and they are a bugger to break

Quote
''Best of luck with it you need to get that bottom race out.
 

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'' yes, all the "just dremel a crack in it and it will just come apart with a tap" advice is nonsense.''

No its not, I was talking about the inner race on the stem which is a interference fit --- as I said I used a 4'' angle grinder with a thin cutting disc in it I got the race wafer thin ( no damage whatsoever to the stem didn't touch it at all) On the first one that I did the race simply split because of the tight interference fit I didn't even need to tap it.
Its all about experience I've been at it for a lifetime, don't know how you are fixed with tools but if you could pick up a cheap welder (I still prefer the stick welder over the MIG) and practice a bit with it you will find it invaluable for some jobs --- makes getting races out of headstocks a piece of piss to be honest.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
well, i cut loads of deep grooves in the inner race (on the stem) and hit it with a hammer and chisel and it took forever to come apart, hence i kept having to cut more grooves, and more grooves...and more hitting...and more grooves. it really felt like it was seized on there after 18 years.
 

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well, i cut loads of deep grooves in the inner race (on the stem) and hit it with a hammer and chisel and it took forever to come apart, hence i kept having to cut more grooves, and more grooves...and more hitting...and more grooves. it really felt like it was seized on there after 18 years.

Totally different ball game 4'' angle grinder to a dremel I was working with the disk on the same plane as the yoke cutting a 4'' radius in the side of the race.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
well, the lower race in the headstock is out

and this is what is left

i thought all of the silver bit was the race, hence the mess...

1.jpg
 

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well, the lower race in the headstock is out

and this is what is left

i thought all of the silver bit was the race, hence the mess...


Well its certainly not the neatest of extractions :) but its all salvageable just make sure non of the damage is proud of the original machining finish.
Make sure when you offer the new races in that they stay dead straight with the housing if you don't you will knacker the race and the housing.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Ok, next is to clean the inside of the headstock so it's smooth ish, then races in freezer and a heat gun on the headstock to install new races

I hope this thread is entertaining to someone
 

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I don't know if I'd call it entertaining, but it is certainly educational.

Well done getting the races out. Based on the pictures and experience so far... be very careful with smoothing over the damage. I would advise you to not use dremel or grinder if you can avoid it. Try to just use fine sandpaper wrapped around a socket and files and take your time.
 

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Yes. Just not very fast. Which, frankly, is exactly what I think you should be doing; Taking it slow. It is easy to spend another 5 min and take off a little more. Putting it back on, though...
I kinda guessed if I tell you to do it manually... worst case: you'll be more careful when you don't listen to me and use the dremel anyway. :) If you do, use fine grit and slow speed.
 

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I would grind it with a small wheel if you leave anything proud of the original surface you will knacker the races up I don't think emery cloth/sand paper by hand will take it back down you are only going to work around the damage just make sure you have total control of the dremel. No problem to use a file and emery on the stem, but your choice
 

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Well.. the world would be a boring place if we all agreed, wouldn't it? :)

No doubt that Dremel would be quicker, but "total control" is the key reason I recommended the less aggressive way. Whatever you decide, I hope you take it slow. Good luck.
 
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