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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Advice needed please.

I am after a new frame, I have found one on ebay.
There is no number on the frame.
The guy has told me that the bike was stolen 3 years ago and when he got it the frame no was missing.

I'm not entirely sure of all the details but it sounds legit, like a returned stolen / recovered (I've no intentions of 'handling stolen goods').

Whilst the 'previosly stolen' part does not bother me too much, what do I do with a bike with no frame no? As its riveted on, can I take the number off my old frame? If not, what do I tell the DVLA? Will they give me a new number? Or is this all a bit too dodgy and I should look elsewhere?

Cheers, Chris
 

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White van man
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Pal of mine rebuilt an accident damaged @ last year. Had to change the frame.

He spoke to DVLA on phone and realised what a big hassle it would be.

As the accident was not recorded he simply restamped the replacement frame, which also had the number removed.

Seemed OK.
 

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Wigs


I can advise you from experience here.

My current RD04 was a stolen recovered bike. It was a mint 6000 mile machine when it was stolen from the previous owners garden overnight. Unfortunately, it was not insured, as it was usually in a locked garage however that one night it was not, due to building work being done on the garage.

The owner had to take it on the chin unfortunately, however quite a few weeks later, a sharp eyed cop caught some charming yoofs pushing a primer black & white zebra trail bike into a garage to top it up. Hey presto, the owner got it back!

They had hacked everything off with a grinder, removed the ID plate on the frame, and angle grinded the VIN number off the headstock. FORTUNATELY, the Police themselves did a good job before returning it to the owner, and re-stamped the VIN adjacent to the original factory number, and also added a sticker to the frame showing a telephone number that could be called to verfiy that the re-stamped VIN is legitimate.

Firstly, I don't know what type of bike frame it is, but the RD03 and RD04 (and Ducati's) have the chassis number stamped on the right side of the headstock, in addition to the chassis plate on the right side.

Secondly, I believe UK market (Africa Twins) bikes have matching numbers, so if the engine ends 1515 the frame will also end the same.

Thirdly, if the seller is selling the frame legitimately, I would like to think he would have no worries about you making enquiries with the Police and DVLA to check his story.

Finally, I worked very briefly for a Ducati dealership and actually witnessed an engineer fitting a new frame to a 916 which he had to stamp with the original VIN. I'm sure the frame you want to buy MUST have legible numbers somewhere, but if not, I can't see any reason why you couldn't move the identity of your bike onto it. Just BE SURE you're not committing an offence by checking with DVLA and the Police first.



Bob :thumbup:
 

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From experience, I re-framed a damaged RD04 and my mate Craig got a new frame through Honda under warranty for his RD07 and these came with no number on the headstock. You simply stamp the number from your V5 on to the headstock and it takes that identity. As long as there's nothing fishy going on this is perfectly legal.
 

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From experience, I re-framed a damaged RD04 and my mate Craig got a new frame through Honda under warranty for his RD07 and these came with no number on the headstock. You simply stamp the number from your V5 on to the headstock and it takes that identity. As long as there's nothing fishy going on this is perfectly legal.

very true, if you purchase a new chassis/frame it will have no vin# as until it is built into a full bike it is merely a part, and thus does not require a number. I had to buy a new frame for my 2004 yzf250 and it came with no number.
 

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It's a good point, but it doesn't apply in this case unfortunately!

A new frame, is a new frame, and comes with a receipt.

The frame in question WAS a bike in a previous life, and there is only a story to back up it's past!


Buyer Beware is what they say!!!



Bob :thumbup:
 

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It's a good point, but it doesn't apply in this case unfortunately!

A new frame, is a new frame, and comes with a receipt.

The frame in question WAS a bike in a previous life, and there is only a story to back up it's past!


Buyer Beware is what they say!!!



Bob :thumbup:
Sorry clouding the issue


I hear what you're saying Bob, if it has been issued a vin number then I'm sure you have to inform DVLA, works on a points system ISTR, so long as it's legit
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'll give the DVLA a call tomorrow get their view on these things.
The photo of the bike has this website written on it...
Motorcycle Specifications, Pictures, Tests and Reviews Directory

Could be a legit breaker. I'm down his way on Monday so I might pop in.
He also has a lot of bits currently for sale on ebay.... Perhaps a bit brave if its all nicked / still warm!

Cheers for all the replies.

Chris
 

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Stone Crazy
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my son had a simiular situation with a FS1 he wrote off bought another bike frame number was all but illegible due too rust, he phoned DVLA and was told ok transfer the numbers its your bikes you are entitled too do what you want
merv
 

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Sorry clouding the issue


I hear what you're saying Bob, if it has been issued a vin number then I'm sure you have to inform DVLA, works on a points system ISTR, so long as it's legit

Hey Shox

No apology required, you were not clouding the issue at all, just giving an opinion, and there's nothing wrong with that.

That's the great thing about this forum, there's a lot of people out there with useful info, and everything helps.

:thumbup:
 

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I've had a good look on ebay and cant find this frame anywhere, but basically, if its being sold by a guy in Ellesmere Port, its almost certainly from a stolen bike, and the guy is also a scammer.

If its from a bike being broken in Manchester by a guy called Alan Lees it may be OK, except I offered to buy the complete bike off him at a very, very good price, but he insisted it had to be broken and could not be sold complete! Why???

A reputable breaker will normally sell you a complete frame with a matching V5, and even an HPI certificate to prove its OK. It's worth a lot more moneywise if its legit.

I know that RD07a's don't have matching frame and engine numbers and I think the same goes for RD07's and RD04's. Basically there is nothing to stop you from swapping the VIN/FRAME number from one frame to another as long as you realise that the headstock number is going to have to be ground out and restamped.

The problem comes when you buy a frame with no numbers and have none to put on it. To get a number for it is really down to you to prove its history to date, with receipts from owner to owner etc.

Same goes for engines, my spare AT engine came out of a buggy, and has the engine number AT750XX stamped in place of the usual number. I've discussed it with the DVLA but as I cannot prove its history in theory it cannot be legally fitted to a road registered bike. What I will do one day is take the number off a dead engine and use that.
 

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..
I know that RD07a's don't have matching frame and engine numbers and I think the same goes for RD07's and RD04's...

Hmmmm, that's weird. Both the RD04's I've owned have had matching numbers on the engine and frame. They were UK bikes, so I just assumed all UK bikes were the same. :confused:


Bob :thumbup:
 

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You just got me worried, so I've just been to check the frame/engine numbers on the V5's with the bikes! Unless all three of the RD07a's I have are a bit suspect, I'm pleased to say none have matching engine and frame numbers. Maybe it was different for the early ones?
 

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Thats normal, My grey imported RD07a does not match either and it clearly has never been out of the frame in its 28,000miles ( 42,k)

As for re stamping frame numbers
I have re registered a TDR 250 stolen recovered and a 1930 Cotton TT racer both of which had NO FRAME Numbers:(

DVLA allocate you a frame number in accordance with 'modern' numbering and it is your responsibility to stamp or otherwise affix the stated number to your bike when you present it for registration/ and MOT.:thumbup:

My TDR had to be inspected by the West Mids Police Stolen vehicle squad before it could be re registered ( Non Q Plate)

The Cotton had to have age related documents to prove it was 1930
( not a problem with provonence) then I went and found the real correct number hiding under paint ( B**er)
But I wish I still had the Cotton....3 speed hand change Burman gearbox, Blackburne 500cc ohv engine, exposed hair spring valves, total loss oiling.....

Ah the smell of castrol R:angel9: Sorry I drifted off topic then........

It now lives in Switzerland and is used for closed road classic/ racing/ parades as it should be:(
They don't allow historic machines on the open road all this eurcrap regs I bet we are next for that

So good luck

Magwa:thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I've had a good look on ebay and cant find this frame anywhere, but basically, if its being sold by a guy in Ellesmere Port, its almost certainly from a stolen bike, and the guy is also a scammer.

If its from a bike being broken in Manchester by a guy called Alan Lees it may be OK, except I offered to buy the complete bike off him at a very, very good price, but he insisted it had to be broken and could not be sold complete! Why???
Thanks for that. His location is down as Manchester. I've emailed the bloke asking for a mobile number as I'm down manchester way on Monday. Spoke to the DVLA today about changing over and they didn't seem to have a problem although I'd have to have the bike inspected and re-registered.

Will see what happens

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Update for you.

The bloke emailed me with a possible rendezvous on Sunday or today. He also suggested that it would be possible for him to meet me somewhere......

I replied suggesting that I would like to meet at his home address as meeting in a pub carpark just sounds a "bit dodgy" and that if he had a V5 for a 2001 AT it'd be nice to see......

No reply. No phonecall.

Thats still stolen then......?
 

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FYI


There have been some offers of AT parts on the forum, eBay, and elsewhere recently (Swapz site I think), from an area around Manchester, Liverpool, Chester area.

Whilst I'm sure that there are many legitimate parts sellers around that area, I'm just mentioning this so that anyone being offered parts remains vigilant and checks everything so they are not scammed or end up with stolen parts.

Being able to draw peoples attention to suspicious activities like this on the forum is excellent in my opinion, because if someone breaking a stolen Africa Twin cannot sell the parts, he will certainly think twice about stealing one again, which makes all our bikes just that little bit safer.

I am not suggesting that any member from the areas mentioned, who posted recently is suspicious, but I'm sure that if they are legitimate they will have no concerns over providing exact details of where the parts came from.

Just my opinion, and not that of anyone connected with the forum.




Bob :thumbup:
 

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Wig's,
I got some crashbars off this guy on saturday, i picked them up from his place in Middleton., he lives in a flat and had them there waiting for me.

He said the bike was stolen recovered with no numbers on frame or engine.

He did'nt offer to let me see the stuff he had left (apparently stored in his mates garage). but he's had a lot of @ bits on ebay.

I was told by a bike breaker recently that when they buy bikes from insurance auctions some catagories can only legally be broken for parts.
I dont know which catagory stolen recovered bikes fall into.
So its the old adage . . . . buyer beware.

Anyway, i have his address and i have his landline number from when he called me to arrange pick up.

There is a breaker in Stafford got bits on ebay for @'s, . . ad says he has stuff for most @'s. he might be worth a call.

PS
This guy says he has all @ stuff; HONDA AFRICA TWIN 750 YOKES ALL PARTS HERE on eBay (end time 07-Sep-09 16:49:13 BST)
 

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