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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Subscription and over-moderation

I have not subscribed to this forum. I come here for casual chat and it kills a bit of time. I’ve had good conversation here, and from time to time I’ve found useful advice. But I’ve also given useful advice. I’ve bought stuff from the shop. In spite of this, I’ve seen my signature censored, my PM privileges revoked. And now, because someone wants spare parts and I offered to help, I’m under attack and censored once again.

Sort yourselves out.

MarkH
Second class citizen
 

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Mark there's no need to be bitter. This place costs a rather lot of money to run, and the tiny amount that's asked for in subscription keeps it running.

Without subscriptions this place would cease to be I'm afraid.

Of course, all the valuable information is still passed without subscription, the banter, the friendliness and the community is also still here. Enjoy :)
 

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Mark - as you can't receive private messages, could you please email me your email address - so I can share some views with you. Pat

[email protected]
 

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I’ve had good conversation here, and from time to time I’ve found useful advice. But I’ve also given useful advice.
Sounds like a fair exchange. There are many people that use the site like this.

I’ve bought stuff from the shop. In spite of this, I’ve seen my signature censored, my PM privileges revoked. And now, because someone wants spare parts and I offered to help, I’m under attack and censored once again.
Now, I do not have any of the facts here other than your account of events. From what you say, you were responding to a request for parts. If that is the case I am surprised you were censored and it does seem overzealous and unfair. Normally it's the blatant speculative for sale posts that get stomped by the admins.

As regards the subscriptions, the way I see it is that dedicated servers cost money. Bandwidth costs money. Storage costs money. CPU time costs money. In order to keep the site running, the bills have to be paid and to make sure that happens and the site stays up, there is now a subscription model in place with clear benefits for members (as per your list).

If you think that the full functionality is worth a tenner then subscribe. If not then don't. However, if everyone felt the same way as you and didn't subscribe, there would be inadequate funds to keep the site running. The person funding the site based on goodwill donations and filling the shortfall out of their own personal funds would have pulled the plug and it would all be gone. That way you wouldn't be able to come here for casual chat, kill a bit of time or access the vast amount of technical info for free.

As for the "Sort yourselves out" - I think the subscription model is far from draconian unlike some other sites I've seen disappear over the last few years. If you have some suggestions as to how it could be sorted out to raise the amount of money needed to keep the site running on its dedicated server then feel free to make suggestions...
 

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Stone Crazy
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As everyone else says this site costs money to run, I contribute too 3 or more other sites one i get for nowt as I am a mod, the aircooled RD club
i am also a mod and pay £15 a year too south west bikers £10 a year all serve useful purposes, now if £10 is really so much too ask for all the wealth of info you get here and discounts etc,then well borrow a guitar and go out and sing on a street corner you will very likely soon have the tenner and then come back and join, and also if there are not benefits to contributing/restricted areas etc then the contributions would be pointless and the site very likely would sink without trace
merv
 

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I pay the subs because like with the Honda Owners Club which is £20 per year I get discounts on other items,
My bike insurance I saved over £100 for being a member of the Honda Owners Club, so that £20 was worth it.
The discounts from Opie Oils and Busters, may only be 10 /15% but on a couple of purchases I have saved more than £10 so Subscription Membership has again been worth it. Also it helps keep the site running and advertisement free.
 

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Wing Commander
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14,437 Posts
I was the evil moderator who did it, so to be entirely fair and open here is exactly what I sent mark:

Looked to me like you were trying to sell something and only subscribers can sell, so I have hidden it from pubic view.

It is only a tenner to subscribe. Nobody makes any money out of it - we all moderate for free.

We charge no commission or anything like that, just the annual £10. Please subscribe.
Many of you will have noticed that the site recently moved server. It is faster (can cope with the chatter section) and more reliable. DaveS is adding new features all the time.

All that costs money. Join any other motorcycling group and it would cost a lot more than £10 a year.

The mods have removed posts from non-subscribers selling stuff. The vast majority have subsequently subscribed.

I am sorry if Mark feels we are ripping him off, censoring him and generally being nasty.

We're actually quite nice, you know?
 

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Stone Crazy
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5,307 Posts
well if he really short of a tenner he can go post his for sales on a faceless boring forum like visordown
merv
 

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SHW'MAE BUTT
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MarkH every one who registers on the forum gets censored to cut out rogue traders and spammers from using the site inappropriately. Buying things from the shop is good and helps fund the site because of the costs of running the servers. The site owner has spent thousands of his own money keeping the site going. your tenner will help keep this one of the largest multi bike rider biking forum on the Net going. it only cost 3 pints of beer.:thumbup:
 

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xrv750x Pilot
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585 Posts
Hi Markh i am also a subscriber on the xrv.site. Since i joined this site i think at a rough estimate i have saved hundreds of pounds on doing repairs/Fixing/replacing/ parts ,Sorting out problems THAT i would have had to leave into a bike stealership to get sorted at £30 plus an hour.I am not well off comparied to a lot off members on this site "new bike anyone"only kidding .I have also LEARNED how to Fix/Change/Adjust Parts the correct way .And last but not least i have gained new FRIENDS who will go the extra mile out of their way to help a FELLOW MEMBER of the XRV Community when they need it most.When you weigh up ALL the benefits of being part of this COMMUNITY the £10 asked to keep it all together is small change indeed.If the £10 subscription is too much then dont pay it but loose out on the extras.Again i am not well off but the £10 is money well spent .I have bought some parts from the for sale section and have sold some parts also again saving myself money and saving the buyer some money.Where else would £10 go so far and last you a full year as they say at Tescos EVERY LITTLE HELPS.If DaveS had said £ 10 is too much i am pulling the plug on this site WHERE Else on the internet would you get a wealth of information on every model ever made in the honda range and all the other Makes of bikes B.M.W. K.T.M. Etc .I can say it,s the best £10 you will ever spend ,Go on you know it makes sense stump up your subscription and enjoy this Community.Francis
 

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Discussion Starter #12
To those who think this is about the money, you need to think a little harder. This is about the gradual metamorphosis of the site into something run by a small elite according to a capricious set of unwritten rules. Case in point: the ‘no selling’ rule appears to be a gradual tightening of the screw (it started as 'no posting in the For Sale section') with the express purpose of coercing people into subscribing. From Whealie’s comment, it appears to be working, though I’d wonder how many people have turned their backs and gone elsewhere in disgust.

I recall some controversy when the idea of subscriptions first came up. I assumed at the time that it was voluntary, in the sense that nothing would change but people would be invited to contribute. They would do so in good faith according to their perception of the forum’s value and of what they took from it. Then I discovered my privileges were being revoked, that messages were being censored and threads closed down, and I saw visitors censured in a heavy-handed way. I have seen this before, and it leaves a bad taste.

I respect Dave’s efforts in setting up the site and keeping it going, and I accept the need for funding. Unfortunately, I think the way it is being done is divisive and you only have to look at some of the more spiteful responses in this thread to see that it has affected the sense of community. My hope is that those at the top will see what they’re creating and do something different.

MarkH
Second-class citizen
 
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Sort yourselves out.
Well I suppose from a moderators point of view if we "Sorted Ourselves Out" we quite simpley wouldn't bother with a site where we're called Facists...

So now are you saying that we should instead remove the subscription side and pay all the costs ourselves???? If that was the case then you'd be moaning on some other Honda forum about their subscription costs and telling them that you miss XRV.ORG.UK that collapsed because there was no more funds to run it.... Without restrictions though subscription would be called donations and we've tried that route and found out the hard way that only a select few would bother...

All the mods/admins don't get a penny from running this site, we give up valuable time to make sure that the sites here when anyone wants to use it... We keep away the spammers and the trolls...we make sure that the forum software is secure and that bugs/problems are kept to a minimum and sorted ASAP..

The rules for non-subscribed and subscribed members were posted and discussed on the forum for months before they were implemented...people had a chance then to suggest any start-up changes and using the correct forum everyone still has the ability to bring in new suggestions that will be looked at and discussed...

Sorry but sometimes I wonder why I give up valuable spare time just to be moaned at...and I'm sure that a lot of other mods/admins on this and other forums wonder exactly the same thing... (No we're not masochists!!!!!!) but for some weird reason the sites are still here and running
 

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Im in shock !

I joined this site in June 07 and have enjoyed every moment of being a member.

Not only have I gained invaluable information regarding my bike on everything from riding techniques to advice on fitting various mods to it, I have also been out on rideouts and met some great people, which is more important to me than £10.00.

I will continue to be a member for a long time to come,

And like me I am sure 99.9% of the subscribed members feel the same.

I have huge respect and appreciation for the time and efforts people who I have never met put in to making, running and operating this forum.

People who make comments like yours only make the people who run the site question WHY? and risk spoiling it for the majority.

I can only suggest that you get out of bed the right side next time and keep your opinions to yourself, the world is all about choices Subscribe or don't its that simple.
 

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Well said Frad, +1 on that.
 

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I joined this site a couple of years ago mostly to glean information. I no longer own a motorcycle of any description and do not intend acquiring one in the future. I will however continue to pay my subscription purely for the enjoyment I receive from reading the posts. Yes, I could continue reading the posts, but without funding I am sure that the site would disappear. The only things that are free in this world are crap anyway.
Get a life.
 

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yet another Dave
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i see no problem with the forum members paying a little to make it all happen, and i think its fair for those who do to get a bit more than those who dont.
i paid my tenner to help the forum along, as far as i know ive only met one other member, (my fault, im shy) i dont pm/im and i rarely sell anything, so have i wasted my money Mark? i dont think so, theres bags of useful stuff in here, and its nice to get online with folks who share the same taste in bikes. you would never get so many single brand adventure trailies together in the same place, amid crotch rocket obsessed Britain. (well, perhaps at a GS get together but i couldnt cope with the dentist banter and the matching rider/pillion outfits and all the uberfrau's shouting instructions into their intercom mics) paying feels like being in a kind of club if you like, however arbitrary.
also, ive got my tenner back a couple of times over with the busters discount.
 

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one-legged member
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It's simple really much like life itself. You like the site then contribute, you don't want to contribute, go somewhere else :walk:
 

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Stone Crazy
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To those who think this is about the money, you need to think a little harder. This is about the gradual metamorphosis of the site into something run by a small elite according to a capricious set of unwritten rules. Case in point: the ‘no selling’ rule appears to be a gradual tightening of the screw (it started as 'no posting in the For Sale section') with the express purpose of coercing people into subscribing. From Whealie’s comment, it appears to be working, though I’d wonder how many people have turned their backs and gone elsewhere in disgust.

I recall some controversy when the idea of subscriptions first came up. I assumed at the time that it was voluntary, in the sense that nothing would change but people would be invited to contribute. They would do so in good faith according to their perception of the forum’s value and of what they took from it. Then I discovered my privileges were being revoked, that messages were being censored and threads closed down, and I saw visitors censured in a heavy-handed way. I have seen this before, and it leaves a bad taste.

I respect Dave’s efforts in setting up the site and keeping it going, and I accept the need for funding. Unfortunately, I think the way it is being done is divisive and you only have to look at some of the more spiteful responses in this thread to see that it has affected the sense of community. My hope is that those at the top will see what they’re creating and do something different.

MarkH
Second-class citizen
sorry mate but i think you need to think again a lot of people work hard here for nothing and idiots like you calling them fascists etc does not help
i know i am mod on 2 other sites, if you feel second class cos you have not paid the required piffling ten quid then do you feel the same having to pay too park your car in a council carpark that already kinda technically belongs to you as you have bought it through rates etc, now if you dont like the forum then go elsewhere please and do not think bad of me for this. we all have right to our views and i respect that is yours, but thats life Jim,
Merv
 
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