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Discussion Starter #1
Whynot's thread made me think: How could one limit the chances of / rate at which output splines might wear down?

Something like smearing a gasket sealer over the splines to give a resisitant, elastic cushion to the sprocket's movement on acceleration/decceleration?
 

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I'd say, don't overtighten the chain & use a decent quality front sprocket and assemble the sprocket without oil or grease as this encourages movement.

Truth is, I don't think anyone actually knows what makes the odd one wear it's splines.

Phil
 

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I've been using the exact opposite approach. Oil or grease isn't going to promote movement, lets face it 55hp going through it is going to make anything that isn't solid move.

I've been working on the principle that the two main causes of the spline wear problem are corrosion and wear from movement. Grease will help to stop both, rather than grind away at a surface the grease will make any movement less harmful to both surfaces.
 

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I've been using the exact opposite approach. Oil or grease isn't going to promote movement, lets face it 55hp going through it is going to make anything that isn't solid move.

I've been working on the principle that the two main causes of the spline wear problem are corrosion and wear from movement. Grease will help to stop both, rather than grind away at a surface the grease will make any movement less harmful to both surfaces.
Purely a personal view, but I disagree with you.
Lube the splines and you encourage movement between the sprocket & shaft as you accelerate & decelerate - irrespective of how much power is transmitted.

I lubed the front sprockets on my 600 Alp years ago, there was slop on the sprocket & slight wear of the splines at the next sprocket change. I now assemble them dry & they are very tight to remove & no slop or wear after 60,000 miles.

Maybe luck, as I say no one really knows the reason but everyone has a different theory/solution, if yours works for you thats great!

Phil
 

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I would say stick to the original Honda front sprockets and make sure the chain is correctly adjusted.
This will limit the strain put on the shaft and prolong it's life.
 

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GOOD front sprockets is the way to go and regular chain adjustment and lube,and by good I mean hondasprockets.The lube issue,can't be proven either way,but I put a light smear of copper grease just to ease the removal and to allow any movement if it has to move but without two metal surfaces coming into immediate contact.
 

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My TA has sufferered somewhat with wearing on the splines.. approx half of my spline threads are worn off the shaft... That was 3 years ago.. since that time what i have done is stick with the original honda front sprocket and grease both the sprocket splines and the shaft splines before putting the sprocket on then clean up any left over before putting the fixing plate on. I check every now and again and regrease but since initially noticing the wear there has been no extra wear on the shaft.

I also had trouble setting the chain slack correctly for my weight but since reading in forums to get someone of similar weight to sit on the bike and check it under load it because much easier and gave piece of mind i wasnt running it too tight.

I guess everyone has their own opinions but for me this works.. my TA has nearly 74000 miles on her and no problems to report. Great machines!.

alex
 

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Just to add my two penath to this ----- I myself do grease the splines but if you are going to grease the splines its essential you use the correct grease, as in a lithium based extreme pressure grease, using copperslip will promote movement between sprocket and splines BUT WILL NOT provide any protection against wear as it is a anti seize compound and NOT a lubricant.

With regard to what Phil has done running sprocket to splines dry and having covered 60,000 miles with no wear, this says it all to me and it HAS been proved this is at least one correct way of doing things. :thumbup:
 

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Isn't the problem limited to the 1986/7/8 TA 600s? Those were the ones with the occasionally soft output-shafts before Honda sorted it. Has anyone with a later bike had the problem? :confused:
 

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Nope, all of them and the twins as well.
 

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Quite interesting reading this thread. The reason I am seeking a new engine for my bike is that the output shaft stripped. On a sunday morning in back country Ireland.

Some strange little chap came out of the woodwork and offered to weld it back on. At the time it seemed the best thing to do. It got me round Ireland, Which is where my fondness for the alp grew, and, most importantly it got me home.

I thought this was a one off. Seems not. I now know to stick with the Honda sprocket. The bike was bought with a pattern one on it, I would like to add. The value of experience and all that.

I empathise with anyone who has problems with their output shafts. It's gut-wrenching everytime I lift the garage door and look at the bike knowing I can't ride it....just yet.

Just thought I'd share.

Griff.
 

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Hi All,
Wear in my view is caused by movement; the sprocket /splines are always going to have a touch of play as it moves back and forth it will over time increase..stop it moving!!!!
I super glue mine on (I can hear you all gasping) and when it comes time to change it, get it off with a puller, it may well be "super glue" but it ain't Kryptonite, and a puller still pulled mine off ...I am not sugesting for a second that if your splines are badly worn that you glue it on, mearly that as a preventory measure I have used the superglue as a gap filler on splines that are good to start with or slightly worn.

Anyway... this is what I do; not sugesting anyone else joins me..a bit unconventional no doubt but hey that's me ...you are talking to the guy who runs his bikes on normal turbo diesel semi oil :rolleyes:

Cheers
Potski
 

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That has got to be right potski no movement no wear, the thing is some of the chemical compounds that may get used to fix the sprocket to the shaft can eat steel!
The wear that happens to some output shafts has got to be a design or manifacturing fault or both of those things.
Back in the seventies I ran the old single cam 750/4s same sprocket to shaft setup aprox. 20BHP more and got thrashed to death ALL the time like most others and I never heard of this problem even at high mileages.

If its not a problem with incorrect hardening maybe its the manifacturing tolerances that give some sprockets to shaft more initial play to get the wear started, just a thought.
Chris
 

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....If its not a problem with incorrect hardening maybe its the manifacturing tolerances that give some sprockets to shaft more initial play to get the wear started, just a thought....


Good point re chemical compounds T Alp :thumbup:...any scientist types out there who could shed some more light on that ?



Cheers
Potski
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If you don't want to resort ot a puller for the superglue, just buy some nail-varnish remover.

Don't ask how I know...:angel1:
 

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I wonder if the problem arose because the sprocket and chain setup were not originally part of the engine design.
Wasn't the VT500 ShaftDrive?
 

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Strikes me as this is a very similar problem to the early MX5 shortnose crank issue (where the woodruff key wears the crank and eventually the crank pully works loose and drops off)

There is a well documented fix which involves (blue and/or red(IIRC)) Loctite.(I just ended up swapping the engine on mine)

Movement between the crank and pully is bad, fill the gaps with something sticky not lubey.

Axe
 

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Strikes me as this is a very similar problem to the early MX5 shortnose crank issue (where the woodruff key wears the crank and eventually the crank pully works loose and drops off)

There is a well documented fix which involves (blue and/or red(IIRC)) Loctite.(I just ended up swapping the engine on mine)

Movement between the crank and pully is bad, fill the gaps with something sticky not lubey.

Axe
That is a similar experience to my KM100.
It kept chewing up the woodruff key and losing the flywheel.
It was after fixing it for the umpteenth time that I chained it to a lamppost and came indoors to get my kit on when it got nicked never to be seen again.:(
 

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Just wondered if the type of power delivery would make a difference, as in single and twin engines are always harder on the drive chain than a smoother power delivery four cylinder engine is.

Chris
 
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