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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)

Hi, here we go,

I have been wanting to try this for quite a while now, here's how I am going about it. So far so good.

Firstly, the dimensions I am looking for are disc to disc (outer) spacing of 130mm & 296mm disc diameter. These measurements are essential.

I have purchased a CBR 1100 blackbird front wheel from a 1998 model; casting number 61R. The original blackbird bearings fit the varadero spindle & Varadero spacers perfect.

The CBR Blackbird 61R wheel uses a 310mm diameter disc & they are of no use at all for this application as the varadero uses/needs 296mm diameter discs.

The disc rotor register/locator for a 61R wheel is 58mm & Disc mounting hole PCD is 74mm.

296mm discs that will fit the 61R wheel are.

CB 600 HORNET 2000-2006
VFR 750 F 1994-1997
CBR 600 F3 1995-1998
CBR 900 RR 94-97
VTR 1000 F FIRESTORM / SUPERHAWK 1997-2006
CB 250 HORNET 1996-now
RS 125 R 1991-2005
RS 250 R 1990-1997
TSR 250 1999-NOW
RVF400 1994-1996
CBR400R NC23 1986-1987
CBR400RR NC23 1988-1989
CBR 400RR NC29 1990-1994
VFR 400 R (NC30) 1989-1992
CB 400N 1982-1988

But these all have a 17mm offset.

It is essential that I have an outer disc to outer disc measurment of130mm, for the discs to fit into the Varadero brake calliper spacing as normal.

The discs listed are the correct 296mm diameter and will locate on the 61R Blackbird wheel register & the mounting bolts line up. BUT, they have a 17mm offset. But this gives me 134mm = 2mm closer to the fork leg either side!

I needed to machine 2mm off either side of the standard 100mm wheel disc mounting faces. 96mm was the required hub width to get the correct 130mm disc spacing!

I mounted the wheel in the lathe, firstly holding it on the longer of the two side’s disc register collars. The collars are different lengths;I held it with the longer of the two collars firstly & machined 2mm off the shorter, opposite disc mounting face taking care not to touch the register/locator. Now the (newly machined) shorter of the two registers had an extra (new) 2mm of register/collar to grip in the lathe chuck, so when machining the other side it was safer to hold in the chuck to machine 2mm off the other side disc mounting face, again making sure not to touch the disc register collar.

Sorry, if it sounds complicated but it took me less time to machine than typing this out!!! If you get hold of a 61R wheel you will see what I mean about the different collar lengths etc.

Back home I deburred the machined faces, cleaned the disc mounting bolt threads then mounted the newly acquired Honda NC30 discs.

I measured up the discs and finally had the 130mm spacing as required. Spoton!

To fit the (new) wheel, both the callipers now need to be removed (like a normal sport bike) due to lack of space from the 17” wheel.

Bolted everything up & checked all was in order, all was good apart from the tyre missing…

Next, the wheel needs to be painted up to match the 5.5”rear in Halfords dark metallic grey.

Will update when tyres fitted, crossed fingers.

Regards,

Firedero, xxx
 

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one of the lost boys
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Lots of work gone into creating "your" bike. Would like to see a few pics. One thing I could see as a minor problem would be the ground clearance, I have scraped the sump guard a few times, with a 17 front you'll bottom out quicker.
Your steering will also be very sharp, go careful testing for tankslappers
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi,

Thanks for the concern, bit worried about the rake angle change also, but will have to try it out before I can remedy a fix!

I have upgraded the suspension quite a bit. Nothing touches apart from the pegs & boots...... but they have been changed recently also!

I can't remember off hand, but if you look up my previous posts the suspension mods are mentioned there.

I know what I want from the bike so it's a case of modify and ride it. Sometimes they work sometimes they try to kill me...

I am also working on a lengthened set of forks also, but that is on hold till I see if I have to go down that road.

As for the upload of photos, am I right in thinking they have to be uploaded on a website somewhere and link them to here??

Regards.
 

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one of the lost boys
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With photos, post them somewhere like flikr picasa ect. When they're uploaded right click on the image and select "copy image location"
Back here when you've opened your text box you'll see an icon button depicting a tree, select that and paste the image location.
Buggered if I know how to do it this phone though :)
 

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whys the rum always gone?
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if it can be done to a GS



then it can be done to a vara:thumbup: i was lucky to find a straight swap from an 1150 RT and is so very sweet through the bends , i think you will find the vara will respond well to this mod Go for it :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi,

Thanks for the positive feedback, it all helps.

I popped to Halfords today for another rattle can of Ford metallic graphite grey to paint the front wheel with. I took the 6 year old empty can I painted the rear wheel with me to check the paint code matched, it did but the sample sticker on the new can lid looked quite different........ Who would of thought that sitting in my shed on the shelf for 6 years would make such a difference......... oops!

I have also been given a very good set of scrubbed Pirelli Diablo's to fit on the wheels for the test ride after the paint has cured. Ideal for the track, but maybe a bit too soft for running around town on & winter's coming!

Should have some tyres on in a week or so & will update with pictures also.

Still scraching my head about the front mudguard though, not too keen on the 1" tyre to guard gap!

I have another mudguard to play with, but any ideas anyone??

Regards.
 

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Nice work!
Looking forward to the pics :)

For the front ride height, is it feasible to strip the forks shorten the 'top out' springs* then add an inch of preload to raise the front of the bike an inch?

Phil
* I'm not familiar with the Varadero s fork internals, so this may mot be possible....

sent from my 'phone
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi,

I have been looking into raising the front, have a look at my other (Varadero & the..... threads).

This fork modification is capable of an extra 4" of height if required! Depending on how much of the fork tubes you have above the top yoke.

The ideal situation would be the fork modification from my other thread & a set of raiser plates for the rear.

If you were touring normal roads, ride with 4" of the forks through the top yoke & the std rear suspension plates.

If you were to encounter rough terrain that would require more ground clearence, crack ths yoke bolts & slide the fork tubes down & fit the rear suspension raiser plates! Put some Tkc's on & then you would have one VERY tall & capable knarley looking Dero!


Just an idea!
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Hi, Feedback from the wheel/suspension modifications.

I have had the wheels & Pirelli Supers on for about a month & it all works as expected. Here are my findings.

Old bike set up:

FRONT. Standard length forks but with later model 2003> Ohlins springs (490mm) & 60mm spacers & 30w Putoline fork oil.
REAR. Hagon shocker with 200Kg spring.
WHEELS. Standard with Metzeler Tourances.
PEGS. Standard.
HANDLING. Excellent, wore throught 1/3 of the right peg & my Daytona's........

17" Wheels fitted:

FRONT. Standard length forks but with later model 2003> Ohlins springs (490mm) & 60mm spacers & 30w Putoline oil.
REAR. Hagon shocker with 200Kg spring.
WHEELS. FRONT. (Machined) Blackbird front wheel 61R casting with 120-70-17 Pirelli Super corsa.
REAR. (Standard) CBR 600FY rear wheel with 180-55-17 Pirelli Super Corsa.
PEGS. MFW Vario with 50mm riser plates.
HANDLING. Slightly noticable initial tipping in feeling. Whilst cornering excellent stability & SHOCKING lean angles.

17" Wheels & Rear jackup plates:


FRONT. Standard length forks but with later model 2003> Ohlins springs (490mm) & 60mm spacers & 30w Putoline oil.
REAR. Hagon shocker with 200Kg spring & jackup plates fitted.
WHEELS. FRONT. (Machined) Blackbird front wheel 61R casting with 120-70-17 Pirelli Super corsa.
REAR. (Standard) CBR 600FY rear wheel with 180-55-17 Pirelli Super Corsa.
PEGS. MFW Vario with 50mm riser plates.
HANDLING.Very noticable initial tipping in feeling. Again excellent stability during cornering with endless lean angles!

17" Wheels, Rear jackup plates & lengthend forks:

FRONT. Forks only extended 34mm the rest is protruding through the top yoke. Standard lowers with CR stantions 4" longer, sleeved damper rods but only 2 damper holes drilled through not 4 as standard. Cut 100mm off the standard spring length to increase the spring strength & new 350mm spacers fitted to get the required preload for the sag. 5 weight oil (all I had in the shed...)

REAR. Hagon shocker with 200Kg spring & jackup plates fitted.
WHEELS. FRONT. (Machined) Blackbird front wheel 61R casting with 120-70-17 Pirelli Super corsa.
REAR. (Standard) CBR 600FY rear wheel with 180-55-17 Pirelli Super Corsa.
PEGS. MFW Vario with 50mm riser plates.
HANDLING. Very slight tipping in feeling. But Very vauge dangerous feeling if the brakes are applied or the road camber changes during cornering (SCARY). The bike wants to sit up! Looking into the too light oil (5 weight) I hope that could be the problem!!!!

5 weight oil is too thin really, but it was all I had in the shed! Zero damping, way too soft! So I am looking for some 30 weight to match what's in the (standard) length forks that were removed for the experiment! The fork tubes have only been (extended) pulled through the lower yokes an extra 35mm to compensate for the reduction in wheel radius due to the 17" wheel.

My thinking is that there is too much suspension movement due to the poor damping. If anything unsettles the bike mid corner she bounces around & that changes the steering rake angle causing all sorts of scary things to happen. I will be getting some thicker 30w oil soon & I'll report back good or bad.......

BTW it still has the original fork brace too with a CBR 600 F2 front mudguard (quite tidy).

Found this site for any BMW Supermoto wanabee's........

http://www.ukgser.com/technical/nick/Converting an R1200GS or GSA to Supermoto (BMW R1200GS & GSA, '04 to '13) V1.0.pdf

Regards.
 

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Noooooo, your giving me ideas now!!!!!
 

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Just remembered this thread.

A '91 vfr 750 front fits straight in with no modification. I believe the later 750s are compatible but have floating discs.



Phil

sent from my 'phone
 

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Thank´s for the idea Firedero. I bought my Varadero in 2002 and was thinking of selling it. But then I saw you frontwheelconversion and now it's a keeper again :) . . Fun and totally different bike to drive . . have the rearwheel from the Superblackbird too and going to fit that when the snow is falling here in Sweden :) . . hmmm, a new frontfender would be nice!?
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Hi, Glad you liked it.

I have been running it with the 17" front wheel/180 rear for a while now & taken it to the local track for a 20 minute session, excellent conversion, even if I say so myself!

The Blackbird rear will not fit, don't waste your time! I have various different Honda wheels in the shed & know that it will not fit into the swingarm, too wide!!

You need to get a Firestorm or early Fireblade (5 spoke) rear, use the existing Varadero wheel spacers & sprocket with carrier & it fits perfectly! Easy!

I tried my (Varadero & the fitting of longer forks) modification, it does work, (I did a 20 minute track session with it) but the brake pipes are too short to take full advantage of the extra fork length available! You can increase the length by an inch or so but to be honest it isn't worth the hastle for road riding. But if you wanted to off road it, that's another story.

As for the front mudguard I copied this idea:

honda-varadero.de

I worked it out that the required fork brace dimensions for the Varadero are the same as a Cbr 400, if my memory serves me right & bought one from Ebay China, for 25 quid delivered! But I managed to keep the original fork brace under the Cbr F2 mudguard, so it's sitting unused on the shelf in the shed....

I bought a cheap cracked F2 mudguard from Ebay to practice on & used a 4" grinder with a Roebuck flap wheel to slowly remove the excess until it fitted. I used the existing Varadero rear (fork brace) mudguard support holes & fabricated a plate (imagine a lolly pop stick with three holes in it & tap a m6 thread in the top hole) that bolted onto both existing front fork mudguard supports but is a little longer so you can use the original Cbr mudguard mounting hole/support!

Sorry if it sounds complicated, but it's a lot easier to do than type........

Once I got it to fit nicely, I scotch padded the mudguard & gave it a lick of gloss black.

Cutting the under side of the mudguard to fit around the forks is a bit fiddly & time consuming but it looks totally standard/factory when finished & fitted!

BTW Ty wrap the brake pipes with the loose unbolted calipers to the radiator support bars when fitting/fiddling the mudguard, it makes life a lot easier, because you will need all the help you can get.

I am seriously coming to terms that this is the bike Honda should of built!

Regards.
 

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Hi again Firedero!

Hmm, I'm not saying you're wrong . . but I got my Superblackbird rearwheel to line up correctly . . but I do have access to a lathe and a millingmaching almost in the same block from where I live :) . . I'm pretty sure that there are easier wheels to fit to the Varadero, but I had a set of Superblackbirdwheels and the new spacers and adjustments didn't cost me anything but time. I'm putting on a tire this week and going for a testride before the winter shows its ugly face here in Sweden.

I'll go for that CBR-frontfender, looks good!


Regards!

litetbakhjul.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Some pictures of the front.



Here are some of the brackets, covered in silicon grease.





This is the cut out required on the CBR front mudguard. This was from eBay & purchased cheap because it had a crack & was originally going to be a template for a new front mudguard. But it turned out ok, so I sprayed it & fitted it...

 

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Hi again Firedero!

Hmm, I'm not saying you're wrong . . but I got my Superblackbird rearwheel to line up correctly . . but I do have access to a lathe and a millingmaching almost in the same block from where I live :) . . I'm pretty sure that there are easier wheels to fit to the Varadero, but I had a set of Superblackbirdwheels and the new spacers and adjustments didn't cost me anything but time. I'm putting on a tire this week and going for a testride before the winter shows its ugly face here in Sweden.

I'll go for that CBR-frontfender, looks good!


Regards!

View attachment 60577
Hi There, I know it has been some time since you have made this modification... but coincidently I have been given Honda black Bird set of wheels…J
So my thinking is if I can stay with original brake disc (not have to mod to Hornet wheel) I could modify blackbird’s wheel… But if possible can you advise me dimensions change you did to them? That will be my 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] option, as my ‘08 Dero require 20mm bore bearings – which make me thinking cbr1100XX….is the good way… Am I wright? I only can asume that https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tUk6cv9HJN8 has 1000xx wheels...
Thx
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi Pete, when using the Blackbird's 61R wheel, all I did was remove 2mm from each disc mounting face on the wheel :thumbup:

I used a huge old Colchester lathe.

If you don't, the discs will hit the forks, & you don't want that.

No need to play with wheel bearings, all the details are in the first post :thumbup:

Remember, I have done this modification for track use only.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Update on the 17" front wheel.

I have been keeping my eyes peeled for 6 spoke CBR600f3 front wheels on eBay & have managed to win a couple :cool:

Here are some pictures with them fitted to the bike :thumbup:

025.jpg

012.jpg
 

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