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Fine, upstanding member
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Discussion Starter #1
I just went and leafletted about 40 bikes in the City of London to try to fill the last TLD slots and was depressed at how many BMWs there were in all the bays. I know they are good bikes, but Honda used to be better quality and much better reliability. How has this been allowed to happen? :(
 

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Craigypops
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They just seem the must have bike at the moment...

To be honest i like the look of the 1200GSA but the reliability of it (and price) puts me off, i think i'd rather go for the non-abs 1150 if i did go for a BMW.

My Suzuki [DL1000] had 19000 on the clock when i bought it (about 2 or was it 3 years ago?, where does it go?) and it's got nearly 38000 on now and all iv'e had to replace is a clutch slave (was leaking) at a cost of £25 and a £1 washer on the oil cooler (again a leak) and thats it (apart from the obvious tyres etc...)

My baby vara before that didn't get quite as hammered in the mileage stakes but was faltless and didn't need anything replacing apart from a bulb.

I think if i had to change bikes i'd be sorely tempted by a Vara for the Honda reliability.

Good work on the leaflets Phil :thumbup:



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one of the lost boys
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These are the statistics for 2008 in Germany

1 BMW R 1200 GS 6367
2 Honda-Italien CBF 600 S 3760
3 Suzuki-Japan GSF 1250 BANDIT 2977
4 Honda-Italien CBF 1000 2791
5 Honda-Japan CBR FIREBLADE 2704

Thats almost double for the GS. 2009 stats are pretty much the same
with 4339 1200GS's registered, but the recession had shown all bike sales were down. the market is saturated with 1200GS, yes they are a good looking bike maybe in a few years I may be tempted across myself, they will not hold a good price on the second hand market for long.
Why....maybe the GS range has been easy to work on throughout its history and has been reliable (when its working great people are quiet)
Japan missed the boat not only Honda but all of them. I love my Vara its great for Europe and can do everything I want and I dont plan to go to Asia or Africa so I dont need anything else, the new Super Tenere looks like a winner but the KTM could well be a better off roader so I doubt if it will tip the scales.

As part of the sales I reckon a lot has to do with internet forums just look at the members and numbers on ADV rider the vast majority are from the states and thats where Honda cocked up IMO, you can get a JCB GS in virtually every country

I have given up waiting for Honda to produce something even with Wheelies latest news I still reckon they will use the VFR 1200 V4 as a new adventure base and will probably only be released in Europe (and bits of Asia) and it wont be a contender


An Position eins der Motorradrangliste gibt es keine große Überraschung. Nach insgesamt acht Monaten an der Spitze der Top 10 sichert sich BMWs R 1200 GS mit 4339 Neuzulassungen den ersten Platz. Auf Position zwei und drei folgen Honda CBF 600 S (2614 Zulassungen) und Kawasaki ER-6n (2528 Zulassungen).
 

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Top Cat
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I think it shows why BMW was so keen to have Charlie and Ewan ride its bikes on the Long Way Down.

The sponsorship deal seems to have been worth every penny.
 

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I think it shows why BMW was so keen to have Charlie and Ewan ride its bikes on the Long Way Down.

The sponsorship deal seems to have been worth every penny.
not sure how true it is but I read somewhere that the first manufacturer to be approached was KTM but one of the directors "saw no marketing value in sponsoring the documentary..." 'cos of that they went to BMW's...
if true the guy is probably cleaning windows in Austria now.....:)
 

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Craigypops
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I think it shows why BMW was so keen to have Charlie and Ewan ride its bikes on the Long Way Down.

The sponsorship deal seems to have been worth every penny.
Defo, the number of GSA`s ive seen since the show is unbeleivable... it's the people who had (and enjoyed them) before the show i feel sorry for as there now just labelled with the rest of having one just coz of them 2 off the tv.

not sure how true it is but I read somewhere that the first manufacturer to be approached was KTM but one of the directors "saw no marketing value in sponsoring the documentary..." 'cos of that they went to BMW's...
if true the guy is probably cleaning windows in Austria now.....:)
Someone told me a different version and thats that KTM wouldn't give them the bikes for free and they spat there dummies out and went to BMW... either way, that guys still gotta be cleaning windows :D

BMW must have made a friggin fortune off the back of the tv shows.



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Because they do something different, honda's range especially is something to put you to sleep come night time. Other than the choice of Blade or VFR1200 you have the er.....and the er...er...hmnn.

Honda need to introduce some excitement into their range.

The other side of the story is of course, the charlie / ewan effect
 

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In search of 7th gear!
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I have to admit, I think the 1150 GSA is one of the best looking adventure bikes out there, especially in Chad Black :)

Right time, right place...

There haven't been many bikes (apart from the KTM) that have really excited me in the allroad segment for the past few years.

JB
 

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When E&C were training for the Long Way Round they seemed to be riding the super ten's so it must have all come down to the sponsorship.
As the programs were edited to show the best bits it is possible that most of the problems were removed from the final show.
This led to the sales that they now have. I wonder what would have happened if they had been given Hondas or another make for the shows.
If they had been given the prototypes of the new 800 GS for the LWD maybe the sales of that would be through the roof.
 

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Premium Member
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Well I bought one.

My reason. I wanted a change. The Vara is a fine bike (if a little bland) but I'd had mine for 4 years and that was longer than any other bike I'd owned. The Suzuki (despite being a lifelong Suzuki fan) and Triumph didn't do it for me and I didn't really want any Italian exotica. That pretty much left me with the Bee Emm.

Is it a better bike than the Vara? Yes...
But is it worth the cost premium over the vara? No...
Am I happy with it Yes..
Would I have another Vara? Yes
Will I have another Vara if it gets the V4? I doubt it.
Would I have another BMW? Yes...

So there you have it. They are a better bike to ride but not that much better (think £££) although in saying the the Japanese prices have shot up and the BMW ones not so the differential is not so vast now. The Yamaha is only a few pounds less that a fully loaded R1200GS Adventure

As for the E&C thing.. I wish they had got the KTMs and then people would stop accusing me of being a wannabe adventurer.

I AM A REAL ADVENTURER

I've been to Piel Island and fallen off. TWICE.
 

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SHW'MAE BUTT
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3,270 Posts
Half of Londoners are knarly off road adventure types and either drive BMW x5's or Audi Q7's and get stuck in the famous North circular byeway dodging fallen trees and pot holes and other farm tractors. The other half want to drive a BMW X5 but cant afford it so they buy a BMW GS or GSA with all the toys attached looking mean and dirty with their Conti attacks shod bikes.

Londoners bikes look like this



How ever this will not look like this for long.:D
 

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whys the rum always gone?
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Half of Londoners are knarly off road adventure types and either drive BMW x5's or Audi Q7's and get stuck in the famous North circular byeway dodging fallen trees and pot holes and other farm tractors. The other half want to drive a BMW X5 but cant afford it so they buy a BMW GS or GSA with all the toys attached looking mean and dirty with their Conti attacks shod bikes.

Londoners bikes look like this



How ever this will not look like this for long.:D
yup it will soon be furry ...then i will have to kick his box head ass till he cleans it:D:D:D:D:D
 

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On yer bike!
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Yes, I think that E&C were a huge succeds for BMW.

... If they had been given the prototypes of the new 800 GS for the LWD maybe the sales of that would be through the roof.
I don't think that the 800 GS (or KTM for that) would have had such an imposing/influnical visial impact as the 1200 GS had.
 

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Because they do something different, honda's range especially is something to put you to sleep come night time. Other than the choice of Blade or VFR1200 you have the er.....and the er...er...hmnn.

Honda need to introduce some excitement into their range.

The other side of the story is of course, the charlie / ewan effect
I am a hondafun and had an @ for 6 years and ride a vara at present ,,,and love it but I have to agree with this post....I don't think honda have reacted to the BMW onslought as well as they should have and the GS 1150 looks mighty awsome still.

If I had the moneyy I would go for the 1150 and not the biggger newer super tech 1200.
 

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Mines a big red one
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Why so many BMW's?

Better bikes, better publicity. Lets put the reliability issue to bed. people don't complain when their bikes are running well.

Hondas.......................too bland and no decent adventure bike
Suzukis.......................their adventure bike melts in the rain
Yamaha....................... jury's out on the Tenere, wait and see
Kawasaki.....................no real adventure bike
KTM............................should have been better but shot themselves in the foot. Rumours of reliability problems???? can't comment
Ducati.........................according to MCN the future of adventure motorcycling:D:D

So there's the choice as I see it,m feel free to take issue
 

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I love my 1150 Adv. It's a great bit of kit. I hate riding it in London though. It's waaaaaaay too bloody wide. If I had to ride it in town every day I'd explode from frustration.

Africa Twin is much better in town.

Next weekend I'm off up to the Highlands again where the GSA rocks.

A tool for every job. :thumbleft:
 

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The Angry Pasty Muncher
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I just went and leafletted about 40 bikes in the City of London to try to fill the last TLD slots and was depressed at how many BMWs there were in all the bays. I know they are good bikes, but Honda used to be better quality and much better reliability. How has this been allowed to happen? :(

Simple BMW are now producing bikes that appeal to every one, 6-7 years ago the only bikes in there range were the GS and K series tourers. Now they have bikes to suit most people including offroad bikes since they bought Husquavrna...

All i can say is I have a 99 Varadero, father has a 2001 R1150gs and the varadero is a far superior mile muncher i've ridden both wind protection, light and comfort are all bettter on the Varadero only advantage the GS has is Shaft drive at the rear which may also be a disadvantage if you have a 1200gs
 

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From my reading of the E & C thing, they did consider africa twin's but it came down to the 115Ö or KTM, C wanted KTM's and in the end they got interviewed by a guy KTM sent who had done the route before (alone) and thought they wouldn't be up to the job, and KTM blew them out, they had already turned BMW down, but rang them back and, Hell! for sure BMW did well out of it!!!
I guess KTM didn't really consider the back-up they would have! FOOLS!!!

Just ridden Leeds to Budapest for my first long distance, on a 2ööö dommie, seen 2 Trans Alps, 1 Africa Twin, and 3 Dommies so far!

It was brilliant, dommie managed mighty fine!

sorrz about the strange inconsistency's don't understand Hungarian keyboards!
 
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