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Discussion Starter #1
I have noticed recently that there is a lot of talk recently on the internet concerning tracking devices fitted to road vehicles, and that a petition has been set up.

I voted on that petition and i will tell you why.

I lived in the Ukraine and Russia for nearly 3 years i used to work for the European Bank that is where i met Anna after my divorce. This job brought me into contact with many ex party people and ordinary people. I have heard many recollections from people as to what is was actually like to live under Communism which is identical to Bush,s Neo Conservatism. The only difference is with Communism the state maintains the means of production with Bush it is large corporates that are largely in bed with the state like Enron. Which was Bush,s largest campaign contribuitor and Halliburton.

Everyone i spoke to told me that the control was suffering and very arbitary. They also said that what looked initially innocuos allways developed into something far more sinister. Corruption was rampant, if you did not pay you dont get anything. If i want my son to have your job and i am higher in the party structure YOU WILL BE SACKED and if you show any form of complaint YOU WILL END UP IN SIBERIA.

I would say to anyone if you want to see what TOTAL Goverment control was actually like go and live there and talk to the people. Britain is not there yet BUT WE ARE WELL ON OUR WAY, we are on that road. In America now today you can AREBITARILY be arrested and thrown in jail without any form of trial, or right to a lawyer, they have got rid of Habeus Corpus and they condone Torture. PEOPLE BEWARE even the Nazi war criminals had a right to a trial at Nuremberg !!!!!. So if i write that Dick Cheney is a war criminal becuase they have as the Secretary General of the United Nations publicly stated started an illegal war that has killed thousands. Can i not be arrested thrown in jail under the catch all phrase of "war on terror" where i can be tortured and have no right to a lawyer or trial?.

You may think it could not happen. maybe, but the only thing stopping it happening right here and now is your belief that it could not !!!!! the instruments of state are already in place TODAY so that it can happen.

After living abroad for many years i find the British extremely Naieve. My honest belief is that within 10 years we will be living in a form of dicatatorship here in Britain. I am a Hedge Fund Manager and a good one in 2005 my fund finished in 2nd place worldwide out of 9600 funds and this year in the top 10% worldwide.

A full blown economic collapse of the western economies is inevitable, we will have a 30,s type depression but much more severe. There is no way out. Governments know this fact full well, therefore we have the "War On Terror" and the "Patriot Act" in America and "Civil Contingencies" act in Britain, supposedly to use against the "terrorists" THESE LAWS ARE TO USE AGAINST THERE OWN PEOPLE WHEN THE RIOTS AND PROBLEMS BEGIN WITH AN ECONOMIC COLLAPSE.

The Economic collapse will happen becuase of unsustainable debt at Goverment, Personal and corporate level, Pension crisis, Peak Oil and Global wage arbitrage with the Asians.

They have a similar law in Hungary, do you remember the riots there this summer about the Prime Minister being caught on tape lying? They immediatly used the "terrorist" laws against the rioters, they showed us the future!!!!

Or remember Speed cameras ONLY TO BE USED IN ACCIDENT BLACK SPOTS according to the Government. Now they are everywhere.

Or remember VAT at 15% that was raised to 17.5% as a "temporary" measure to pay for the Poll tax fiasco. It is still at 17.5% !!!!!

NEVER TRUST THEM, they are allways the enemy of freedom. Fight them allways
 

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Is this pessimism friday?

Sorry but I disagree, we still have to power of the vote, if that doesn't work there is the power of the people. The dictatorships of the former communist blocks fell, the poll tax fell, never underestimate the power of the individual!

There have been so many predictions throughout time on the collapse of civilisation, the end of the world etc. The millennium bug was a huge anti-climax, there were 23 predictions for the end of the world for 1998 alone, still here as far as I'm aware. Most things have a self regulation about them, as I'm sure you know in your job, the stock market crashes we've had, the FTSE recovers, it's currently around 6200, if my memory serves me right thats higher than the pre-crash high, I didn't listen to the doom meisters then, I kept my endowments, they are slowly on their way up again, any shortfall I may incure has been offset by the low interest rates we have had the past few years, so I'm not out of pocket.

also on speed cameras, if you don't speed you don't get caught :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Rush

I agree with you completely, not so much the power of the individual the power of the crowd or the masses.

BUT

We will have to go there first of all before the crowd awakens and that will be the unpleasant part. What i am saying is that we are well on the road to going there.

We are sleepwalking into it, and we still have an economic collapse coming

Pessimism? NO HARD REALITY.

People need to wake up and FAST
 

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The problem is most folk (like me) don't know what to do for the best.
We are all tied into the fate of the stock market with endowments and pensions , our debts and savings are linked to a rate fixing mechanism controlled by the goverment (or at least one of its "so called" independant bodies - aye right !!). So what's a man to do? ......... do we liquidise all our stocks and accelerate a self induced decline ? , do we withdrawn our money from the banks ? and therebye start a run where the banking system would try to defend by increasing interest rates to try to reverse the run and by doing so hump us on our debts ?

Do we exercise our democratic rights and get rid of one self interest group and replace it with another ?

I think the secret to maintaining your sanity is to understand that we are getting humped - appreciate that a certain degree of humping must be tolerated - and thank whoever or whatever you call God that we still live in a relatively safe and civilised society where law and order and decent folk are still in the majority.
 

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I agree with Wee Jack on this one. It's funny to have to accept a certain degree of humping, but inevitable unless you can afford your own Island and be self sustaining. I am totally disillusioned with Politicians and Politics. The whole business appears to be rotten to the core. But then again, all I ever see is whats in the media. You don't hear about good politicians because it's boring news. We'd much rather feast on MP's and their affairs with Rent Boys....oh yes, that really gets the juices flowing.
I too belive that most people are intrinsically good too. I haven't met any Muslims who want to blow me up, I have never seen a yardie with a gun, in fact, I have never seen a gun in London. But thats not wait you would assume if you believed our Media, oh no, the place is teeming with home-made-explosive obsessed monorities 'bent on destruction'! Family, good friends and a decent amount of beer is about the most important things I reckon. Oh yeah, and my Transalp!
 

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I think with Bush and Blair gone in the near coming future, liberalisation will hold the hawks by the balls once more and a lot of heat will be out of our confrontational world. We can't stomach the bullshit anymore.

As for a 1930's depression, I doubt it. No-one truly agrees why that happened but the cost of WW 1 was seen as a major factor. There was also a massive decline in foreign trade because import taxation leapt from 20ish% to 50% and the federal reserve cut the money supply by 1/3 so people couldn't borrow money and for numerous reasons investment plummeted. The similarities are consumer debt and an ongoing military cost.

People survive, but I agree the UK will be particularly hit hard as our domestic economy is frighteningly in debt. We need sensitive correctional strategies and I'm glad the government doesn't entirely have it's hands on interest rate change.

I there's anything to learn from this, it's the US needs a better way of voting in Presidents and we need a less superficial bunch of greedy tossers for our government.

The frightening thing is that most people are so utterly disenfranchaised with the whole process of government we no longer have depth of understanding within the public about political issues and it's more a case of sticking our heads in the sand...
 

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Bl0ody hell this is a bit deep for a Honda Motorcycle website!

The UK: Best sense of humour in the world, best pubs in the world.

Everything else is second rate (I'm not talking about the conciencious workers at all grades but the way things are run from above). We hear many tales of corrupt governments in (for instance) Africa and South America but ours have all got their noses in the trough. Why do most/all MPs have further incomes from private companies - Is running UK PLC not a full time job!??? :evil:

Our govt have totally alienated the backbone of this country - the forces, NHS, teachers, police, farmers, miners, fishermen, tradesmen etc to please Brussells. Our national 'old fashioned' values have been eclipsed by red-tape and massive legislation, creating what I call 'non jobs' to police it all. It's like the bl0ody MATRIX! Personally I find mass brain washing fascinating as a concept but it is concerning: Give most people a newish car and lots of equity in their house and they will comply.

We are over-run with class A drugs and firearms are freely available if you know who to ask, kids run adults and most are afraid to speak out/resist. The minority groups have very vocal representation and get lots of media exposure - Mr Average has no voice, it's 'The Firm' and they aren't listening.

Personally I feel the only real thing you can do now is watch out for your family & friends, now that - and your beliefs you can control.

Shep: If you can turn my £3k savings into enough to buy an island off Thailand first, I'd be grateful......

Where's my ****? I need one................. 8)
 

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fak me :shock: :shock: igot a headache after reading that lot :lol: :lol:


i agree with you all now just shut up love up and above all be cool every body be cool 8) 8)

im off to re bury my head in the sand :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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Chad said:
fak me :shock: :shock: igot a headache after reading that lot :lol: :lol:


i agree with you all now just shut up love up and above all be cool every body be cool 8) 8)

im off to re bury my head in the sand :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Chad matey, you me and 99% of the rest of the UK are all doing that already :D I am an ordinary guy, struggling as best I can to keep my family safe and well. Things being discussed here are too much for me to deal with directly, I don't feel I could have any control over their outcome as I don't have any faith in the people charged with the responsibility to act on my behalf. that leaves me in the position I, along with the other 99% of the UK find ourselves. Surviving. I deal with what I'm faced with to get the best I can for my family at that moment in time.

Shep, I'm quite sure their is a very large smack of truth in what you say, but I don't see there is bugger all I can do about it, so why worry? :? Luckily, I have no wealth to lose in a 'Wallstreet' crash :D and no burdening debt to crush me when interest rates hit the roof (other than my mortgage which is only 25% of current equity)

Keep happy and keep plenty of fuel for your coleman stoves for when the revolution comes :shock:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
What is interesting about this post is that everyone has no faith in Government or the whole political process anymore. ME INCLUDED !!!!

I love my job, allways a real challenge every day. The market is a very strict teacher get it right you get money get it wrong and the market helps itself to your money!!! It really is a zero sum game. Go up against me with your opinions if you are right put your hands in my pockets and take my money, if i am right i will be putting my hands in your pockets !!!. Unfortunatly to make the right decisions i have to be very acquanted with the way the world really works, not the laughable junk that passes for "news". Listen to that crap and you would not have any pockets left !!!!!

The way it really works in a nutshell. The old banking families control the media which therefore by default they control the whole political process. They also 100% control the whole security/Military situation as well. Notice how many MI5 and MI6 are ex city boys and how many important military officers get cosy city jobs upon retirement.

To become a senior politician you will be closely vetted and told in no uncertain terms what you can and cannot do, They control Blair and Cameron so pointless wasting your petrol to go to the voting station to vote. "Democracy" is that you get to vote once every 4 years for THERE MAN or you could vote for THERE OTHER MAN and then for the next 4 years business as usual !!! As a Politician if you go up against them then 1, you will be warned 2, you will be destroyed in there controlled media 3, you will be assasinated.

three American Presidents went up against them by abolishing the Central Bank and curtailing there power Andrew Jackson - ASSASINATED he called them a "Den of Vipers" Abraham Lincoln - ASSASINATED his killer admitted he was employed by the "money Trust" John F Kennedy - ASSASINATED the very next day after JFK was murdered LBJ repealed his banking laws !!!!!!! coincedence?

They absolutely bank on the fact that normal people are passive they call us the SHEEPLE and sheep can be sheared. Give us a constant stream of reality TV, crap celebrity and seriously dumbed down education washed down with a serious dose of propaganda via there "Media" and we will believe.

Are they rich these international bankers? the Russian Government calculated about 8 years ago that the Rothschilds family and associates as they are all interbred by marriage owned in excess of 50% of the worlds total wealth in excess of $12 trillion dollars. The whole Yukos affair was a go by the Russian Government against Rothschilds control. YUKOS was just a Rothschilds front company, Who did Mikhail Khordorkosky the richest man in Russia and at that time 5th richest man in the world leave his shares in yukos in "trust" to the Rothschilds. They also control all the major American banks and Exxon, and Mobil and Gulf and Texaco and BP and Shell !!! In relation to these boys Bill Gates of Microsoft would not be even petty cash.

QUESTION: Why do we pay £200,000 to £300,000 for a house and tie ourselves to a 25 year mortgage that consumes a very large part of what we work for everyday. When that house will only cost £30,000 to £40,000 to build? Becuase they only allow a limited stock of housing and unlimited credit to purchase it. The classic definition of inflation too much money chasing too few goods. The market then becomes a what can i afford each month in credit AND NOT a true what is it really worth market. They also know that we all need somewhere to live it is called DEBT USURY and it is illegal in many countries of the world.

A good example if Honda only built 10 new Africa Twins every year and unlimited credit was available to us all. I guarantee that the price of the Africa Twin would be bid up to say £50,000 or £60,000 per bike.

The SHEEPLE would not look at what the bike is actually worth in plastic and metal terms they would look at the amount they had to pay in credit each month. Lets face reality, there is a lot of really crap housing in Britain that has been bid to extreme levels, becuase people are not looking at the bricks and mortar the BUILD COSTS they are looking at the monthly payments.

There is plenty of land available for development, but the bankers do not want this DO NOT INTRODUCE MORE SUPPLY. As i have mentioned before they control the political and therefore ultimatly the planning process !!!!

They would prefer a Feudal debt usury system. Could i possibly be right? there are 28 countries in the European Union but Britain has in excess of 40% of the EU,s total consumer debt !!!! 40% !!!!!!.

It should be renamed GREAT BANKERLAND or GREAT DEBTLAND
 

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Yep, and unfortunately I'm one of them!
We owe far more than it is possible to repay, work for a system that pretends to care, although the individuals in it really do care and just try to hold it all together!

The sand is not deep enough, but faced with almost absolute powerlessness I just play along, hoping to have enough to help my kids and grandkids play along too.

Oh well, so long as there is mud to ride in!
(Oh, I forgot, they're taking that away too!)
 

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Shep said:
three American Presidents went up against them by abolishing the Central Bank and curtailing there power Andrew Jackson - ASSASINATED he called them a "Den of Vipers" Abraham Lincoln - ASSASINATED his killer admitted he was employed by the "money Trust" John F Kennedy - ASSASINATED the very next day after JFK was murdered LBJ repealed his banking laws !!!!!!! coincedence?
Ummm....Shep? Andrew Jackson, president, fierce opponent of the National Bank and self-styled "man of the people"(though he owned slaves and was (in)famous for his ruthless persecution of Native Americans), was never assasinated. He died inretirement in his home of TB and heart failure.

In agreement with you on the "Sheeple" concept. However, compared to some of the places I've been, the UK is heaven.
 
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