I heard that a good while back about EBC pads...been avoiding them for 3 years at least.

Scary stuff.

 

Never used them, EBC that is, not the brakes!!

Andy.

 

Oh dear, I've not long fitted a set of EBC sintered pads in the rear

 

Blast it, I have just fitted a set to the front.

 

Just fitted a set on the rear... Doh ...

 

guys i don't care what the cost is, get them removed immediately! no way would i have them on, not a chance!

 

i've never had a problem with ebc pads
perhaps you were just unlucky to have two sets break up

 

Dude, that's nothing! There's still some friction material left FFS

I've had them disintegrate so there's nowt but the backing plate left on. Surprisingly the brakes still worked pretty well, but you should have heard the noise

The bad news is this has happened to me on 3 different makes of pad: EBC, Carbone Lorraine (sp?) and another I can't remember. Been riding for over 20 years and this has happened to me in the last 5 years or so, which probably accounts for only about 10% of my total mileage. This could be because my brake pads tend to get old before wearing out these days, whereas I used to get through 1-2 sets every year. Or it's something to do with modern manufacturing. Perhaps the EU banned all adhesives that actually adhere, or something?

they only warranty them to remain in one piece for 6 months or 5000 miles. After that, if they break up and kill you, it's not their problem

Terms and conditions don't really mean anything in cases were there is a defect that you can argue makes a product unfit for the purpose for which it was sold? You'd have to ask a solicitor if you really want to know, but I'm fairly sure statutory rights etc. override any amount of small print someone puts on a product...

I think it would hang on whether a court would accept that brake components sold for a normal road vehicle are fit for the purpose, if they disintegrated after say 5100 miles or 7 months of normal use. Might be different if there was evidence of poor maintenance or abuse, but EBC would have to show that was a more probable cause of the failure than a defect in the pads.

Naturally you may feel it's not worth taking EBC to the Small Claims court in order to get a new set of EBC pads for free. But if you'd crashed and it could be attributed to the pads failing, I don't think it would affect your case.

 

Well, up until a couple of years ago, I'd had no problems with EBC pads too. When the EBC green organic pad failed on my CB-1 I posted on the 400GreyBike forum and found two other people on that forum had experienced the same thing. This latest set of EBC organic pads came with the bike so weren't my pad of choice.

Yes I'd say I've been unlucky having this happen twice but I have been very lucky that it hasn't caused brake failure or caused them to lock up mid-corner.

For this to happen twice with the same type of pad has to be a design or manufacturing flaw. For EBC to only warranty the pads against defects for 6 months/5000 miles shows they know they are rubbish too.

Having a bit of a google about shows this has also affected cars:

http://forums.focaljet.com/tire-rack-tires-wheels-brakes-forum/449654-ebc-brake-failure.html

...and Mountain Bikes:

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/brakes/brake-pad/ebc-brakes/green-/PRD_359765_107crx.aspx

In all the years I've been biking and all the countless pads I've got through, the only two failures I've seen have both been EBC. I'm not risking it happen a third time.

Naturally you may feel it's not worth taking EBC to the Small Claims court in order to get a new set of EBC pads for free. But if you'd crashed and it could be attributed to the pads failing, I don't think it would affect your case.

It sounds to me like that famous Ford Pinto bean counting case. The cost of meeting any claim of death or injury from defective pads may be far less than making the pads properly in the first place.

If I had crashed as a result of defective pads, I too am sure their 'Warranty' would be irrelevant to the court case.

 

I really hate EBC pads now. Look what I found when I removed the rear wheel to get a new tyre fitted:

This is the second set of EBC pads I have experienced that have broken up. The last set was on a little Honda CB-1 where the entire pad material completely separated from the backing and just fell out of the caliper.

Apparently, EBC only give a limited warranty on their pads. To quote their site:




So, they only warranty them to remain in one piece for 6 months or 5000 miles. After that, if they break up and kill you, it's not their problem. I won't be using them again. There are enough other road users out there trying to kill us without shoddy aftermarket pad suppliers getting in on the act.

Very poor!

If you're using EBC pads - check them regularly for hairline cracks and signs of the friction material coming away from the backing plate. If in doubt, change them.

I fitted EBC's on my varadero's front disc's a couple of years ago and they grooved the discs quite badly. Swapped them for original honda pads and have no problems since. Will only use genuine spares now they price isn't normally any different and they're approved for use by manufacturer

 

When I first got my AT it had EBC discs on but original pads. Fortunately I don't use the brakes that much but the combination was totally mismatched and week, especially in the wet.

I now have the Honda discs on and the difference is night and day, I now have brakes, still don't use them that much though but it's nice to know they're there if I need them

 

I fitted EBC front discs and the pads recommended by EBC to match. Instant ABS in any wet conditions above fine drizzle (fun on the motorway). I will stick with original equipment Honda discs and pads in future, even if the discs only last as long as the fuel pumps before warping.

 

i read somewhere a couple of years ago that a uni in the colonies was doing a study into reports that the pulse effect from ABS was shattering the friction media on pads.
possible i suppose? but the ABS(hopefully!) doesnt come on very often, if at all

 

All the failures I've heard about have been on non-ABS machines so far so I don't think that's the issue. As far as I'm concerned it's shoddy manufacturing resulting in a pad not fit for purpose.

 

I had two sets of ebc rears come completely off their backing plate on my transalp. Second time it very nearly had me inspecting the tarmac.

It is definately a production/manufacture problem.

 

thats a shame, EBC are supposed to be one of the best out there.

 

Bummer - just brought new EBC rear pads this arvo

Ok enough about thes pads being shoddy - what would everyone recomend instead ? Which after market pads are deemed the best ?

 

I'd use Honda Genuine. They are a good compromise between braking force and disc life and, more importantly, they don't seem to suffer from the same falling apart issues.

Now, I'm sure there are others who will say EBC is fine and that other manufacturers pads have failed on them but for me, EBC are the only ones that have done this on my bikes and, for that reason, I'm out (sorry, too much Harry and Paul).

 

Alan,

are those pads from my old RD04?

Bob.

 

Yes they were. It's much happier now

 

I've had one set of ebc pads on the dommie front brake, they were gone to the bare metal in under 2000 miles. Not impressed.

Since then I've used Lucas and Ferodo pads.

I like the lucases, good feeling and stopping power, decent life (10k miles)... Downside is I had to replace about 1 brake rotor (www.braking.com @ 100ish euro) per 2 sets of pads. ;-)

Ferodo is in there at the moment, sameish feel, no idea about life yet on the dommie as it's my first set.

Also used ferodo when I changed to a 320mm disc on the GS. They've been in there for 25000 km and were replaced (with lucas) because the disc got warped. They weren't finished yet.

 

The fronts were Ferodo and were fine. The rears were EBC although the Fowlups receipt said "Nissan" - so I expect they only had EBC in stock at the time you did them last and hadn't updated their stock system.

It wasn't any hassle as I had a spare set of pads courtesy of Wemoto so I just popped them in instead. They are Kyoto pads (bargain basement) and will do for now. Having said that, they do brake considerably better than the poxy EBCs.

 

Hi Guys, my name is Andy, I am the owner of EBC Brakes which incidentally are made right there in Bristol where this thread seems to have started.

There is no excuse for a break pad to fail in a catastrophic way but I want to say a couple of things here. This may or may not be our fault. However, all we see here is a part of the pad coming away not a complete failure of the pair or an accident thank god, having happened

First if any product in life fails, dont just moan about it, contact the suppliers or manufacturer and give them a chance to do something about it and they can LEARN from it. We have no record of a contact from you Alan even if you bought a second hand bike with our pads in.

If in fact these failed pads are EBC from the photo only part of one pad has become detached. There can be several reasons for this the most important one of which from my point of view is what we call a corrosion debond. When I took over EBC in 2002 this was one thing I looked into and after some work with Lotus Cars we came up with a solution to prevent this on cars and bikes. This fix is now present in all our pads and we have made guys 32 million sets of these since I took over the factory. As the worlds largest producer of aftermarket pads we do recognise a responsibility here and have addressed and will address any issue we see,

There are other reasons a pad like this might fail and to see whether these were involved I would need the pads pad to make several tests. Happy to do that with any failed pad if you sent them to me at

Andy Freeman
EBC Buildings
Countess Road
Northampton
NN5 7EA

These other ancillary causes would ocurr with any manufacturer.

I notice in this thread people talk about EBC Green pads which we did make a few of many years ago for Bikes. We have not made Green coloured pads for Motorcycles since well before our takeover of the factory in 2002 so anyone who found a set of these got some really old stuff.

This forum has served a useful purpose by bringing this to my attention here but further expressions like EBC is crap or poxy are a little unfair considering the millions of happy bikers we have around the world. We estimate over 90% of our business is reapeat buys, cant be all that bad.

One final comment. Brakes are a very important part of your bike and need to be serviced like a chain. Remove the pads once a year and inspect them and the calipers and slider pins and re assemble, there is a taster to a very useful DVD on our website that shows you how to do this, it is admittedly something we sell but does go out free of charge when buying certain EBC product from our vendor network. The point is, dont just fit pads and forget them when you are riding in rain,sometimes mud and even salt and regularly parking a bike outside for weeks in the wet as corrosion, piston and slider seizure and bent pad pins are things that will cause a pad to stick, lead to backplate bending which can pop the friction puck off any pads. At this pad removal each year check the pads for plate flatness and check around the edges for hairline cracks which promote edge lifting and if noticed the pads should be changed.

Link is here EBC Brakes - Fitting instructions and SAFETY information for EBC Motorcycle Brakes

I am a biker of many years experience myself guys not some bloke sitting in an office raking in the dosh from unsuspecting bikers, I understand the needs of this market , I understand Motorcycles and their brakes and will rise to the challenges of their needs.

Safe riding to all

Andy Freeman

 

Hi Guys, my name is Andy, I am the owner of EBC Brakes which incidentally are made right there in Bristol where this thread seems to have started.

Safe riding to all

Andy Freeman

Thanks for the really informative post Andy. I'm sure we all overlook braking systems from time to time but there really does appear to be no excuse for this sort of catastrophic failure. I for one will certainly be interested to find out if the reasons behind these reported failures in your products have been addressed. Please keep us informed of your findings.

If it's down to older stock that may have been susceptible to debond it would be worth letting us know how to identify the items made with the newer processes that you mention.

I realise the main reason you joined the forum was to give an official response to posted events but please do stick around. It will be incredibly useful and mutually advantageous to have a braking expert in our midst.

 

Thanks Boris, its plates on sticks for me, I see a problem,resolve it and move to the next plate.

Lets wait to see how many returned parts come in, we can see a batch code on them and if there seems to be any pattern we will of course respond.

I need to see as many returned suspect parts as members can find to make a good decision and as I said we have had ZERO returns or indication that the problem is other than random.

If it is random, we will update our website and catalogs to warn but of course servicing a vehicle is anyway something that is not an EBC alone responsibility and its not just organic pads either, as you see there were other sintered brake brands mentioned as debonds in this very thread and if you look on our website using this link

EBC Extreme Pro™ Brake Pads | EBC Brakes


you will see we came across this with OTHER people pads and developed a worldwide fix, so sintered and organic pads both suffer from backplate deflection which causes pad debond for a variety of reasons, happens in the car industry a lot also with all brands of pad.

I am updating our website right now but would dearly love to get some failed or edge lift samples back if anyone has any so we can investigate properly.

Cheers Boris and all
Andy F

 

Thanks Andy.

This is not directly related to this thread (or even EBC pads in general) as the bike in question doesn't have ABS but I have seen speculation that ABS systems may put abnormal loads on the bond due to the pulsed nature of the forces and normal (non OEM) pads aren't up to the job.

So, although the callipers are often the same can you put your experts hat on and tell us if there is a difference between pads designed for ABS and non ABS systems.

 

I am quite happy to arrange for a Bristol Factory tour to show you the lengths we go to on pad quality, I know it might be a bit of a ride on a thumper for you Boris but Alan and any other bikers within reach of Bristol would be welcome (up to say 20-30 which is a safe party to handle due to HS restrictions as this would be a LIVE tour when operators working) ....... lets sign people up and I will get it organised.

Any takers ?????

 

I am quite happy to arrange for a Bristol Factory tour to show you the lengths we go to on pad quality, I know it might be a bit of a ride on a thumper for you Boris but Alan and any other bikers within reach of Bristol would be welcome (up to say 20-30 which is a safe party to handle due to HS restrictions as this would be a LIVE tour when operators working) ....... lets sign people up and I will get it organised.

Any takers ?????

im in

i have been avoiding EBC due to hearing they are rubbish

but i would love a fresh new look on EBC :thumbright:

 

The suggestion that there are different pads for ABS and NON ABS systems is a clear myth and borders on the old word BS.

Not a chance in hell there is any difference Boris

 

Sure I speak for many when I say 'hat off to the man' :thumb: for being pro-active and getting on here to post. Well done that man. :thumb: It is nice when people step out from behind the counter. It makes many a problem solvable with a touch of communication and the all important information surrounding a problem.

I had two sets (one nearly new and one out the packet new) fail completely on the rear of the transalp about 3 years ago. One after the other. Both from a shop in Sheffield who duly replaced them both. The second set with another brand (forget which). I later asked if anything came of it as I was concerned about batch failure and other users as the second set very nearly had me on my arse.

It might be the case that as with me the breakdown in comunication lies somewhere in between the customer-shop-representative-yourself.

I was told that they were passed on but not warrantable item and 'never mind'. I did not pursue it and shop picked up the tab for them.

 

Hi Andy.
Very well done for doing this.
It puts a personal face to a faceless organisation. I have no idea EBC were even made in this country, let alone just up the road from me.

I think a factory tour would be excellent. And I think from reading this thread there are a few people locally that are EBC sceptics so I'm sure they'll be keen to see what goes on.

Perhaps you could let us know some convenient dates and I'll try and rally the troops for a visit. :thumbup:

Cheers
Dave
(Site Owner)

 

Having read the posts about the failures,I was worried as I have got EBC brake pads in my front calipers.
So far I have had no problems with them, But the fact that some have failed is worrying.