R&D work never pays when its at this stage thats for sure. when i start projects like this i have to make a conscious decision on one of two options i guess

1: time/money no expense (no build plan too!)
2: strict budget and no deviation for the build plan

Kami was always in the first group as she is my bike at the end of the day so its had from day one the whatever it needs it gets approach so far... but at the end of the day she isn't being built as a toy, its business and she will need to earn her keep in later life! so once shes been built then she will be taken apart each bit copied, and costed so that bike two is effectivly built with zero R&D.

That all said and in direct response to the question i think the hands on hours are a lot less that you would expect, in real terms i spend no more than 2-3 hours a day, 2-3 times a week on her. I expect the hands on hours in total to end up somewhere in the 150-200 bracket which in motorsport terms is absolutely nothing!.. to put that in perspective the desert racer has been in build for best part of 10 years now and I'm still not happy with it!. What has shocked me most i guess with this build has to be the fafing around that seams to be taken as the norm in the bike world, its new to me on this level and un heard of in the normal avenues of motorsport i have previously been down. If we factor in the amount of hours chasing suppliers (wish i had a quid for every time i was told its a 3 day delivery when in real terms i'm shouting at them 3 weeks later!!), the problems with component compatibility, the fact that the basic structure for building a bike like this doesn't seam to exist and the bureaucracy that i expect to come when she is in competition then i can see why very few have got so in depth before... these hours i would guess are in the thousands, as this project was dreamed up back in 2005!

Setting Kami aside in R&D terms and looking at bike two using the products that have been developed from Kami its a different ball game, With the few unknowns left (like the rear damper, graphics package) i already know fairly well what its going to cost to build in both components and labour, so much so that i can confidently say i can sell a fully prepaired raid ready xtz850rx for sub £4000 thats at least 50% less than a comparable new stock WR450/or KTM. What i think is more important to this project is the 'xclusivity that raidXtreme gets from the builds, we own all the molds, we own all the jigs and we know the tweaks to get round the problems that every build on this scale has, that is worth more £ than anything at the end of the day.

so there you go long answer to a short question... you have officaly been jenna'd!

 

so there you go long answer to a short question... you have officaly been jenna'd!

And you guys have no idea what it's like living with her and being Jenna'd time and time again!!!

:violent1::violent1::violent1:
:violent1:Kymmy:violent1:
:violent1::violent1::violent1:

 

Yep, Jenna, at that sort of price your going to have a Forum full of "RaidXtreme" marque bikes .
Can I be on the list too? Then I might be able to keep up with Rik and his KTM 950 .

 

can you do anything with my Triumph Bonneville Scrambler

 

i just know i'm so going to regret this.... but like what? ( notice no smart arse remarks!!!)

 

Look at 'em. Like lambs to the slaughter

Phil

 

Jenna, why not square off the area of the tank behind the filter housing & above the front of the seat & site the flush filler there.
What exactly is the point of split tanks anyway?

Phil

 

Sounds like a visit to a breakers yard for some trail type bike with a steel tank (before they allowed plastic ones on the roads) and cutting the neck off them and weld back onto yours.

 

i didnt really want to add to the back of the tank for no other reason than i dont like the look of it... stupid i know as its the easy solution, but i didn't like the look of it in the mock up.

split tanks have two major advantages, one is increased fuel capacity as the tank is not restricted to being removed vertically, and 2: production is much simpler as it only requires a 2 part mold and not 3 or 4!....

after looking around the online breakers lists its just not going to be realistic to buy 2 MX tanks just to chop up, most want £20 plus for knackered ones!!

So that all aside whats new.......

well one problem the XTZ seams to suffer from is crap electrics, thats a bad loom and generator (alternator)/rectifier burn outs. Now i know that your all saying that sounds like the probs the @ has too... well it should do as its the same dodgy set up made by nipon denso for the early @ on the XTZ!

After a bit of hunting around i have found a company that make a new generator that kicks out 33amp and not the stock 25 which is good news as were loading the old thing up with quite a bit more electronics. Its also good news that same guys can build us an HD rectifier to work in tandem with the upgraded generator... more to come on this soon!

 

Hey Jenna, i have a whireing loom of my old tenere i sold on ebay in bits. Yours if you want it. No problems with it while on the bike.

 

we actually bin the stock loom as its got way to many plugs in it for safety, but thanks for the offer. We are always on the hunt for XTZ,TDM,TRX and WR bits (especially a 27' 850 engine out a trx and a stock 750 xtz frame/v5), I am also in the market for 2 tatty but fairly complete XTZ's if you know of any.

 

No problemo, i did have the frame+wheels+forks+other bits untill a while ago, sold them to a breaker, i could call him if you want, might still have them, front wheel had an excell rim on it. Or i could pass the number.

 

not much happening at the minute as i have a few other jobs to get sorted that are more important, so I have held on to this post for a few days....

Finally it looks like the issues of electrics are sorted, after a bit of monkey'n around I think i have worked out the best way to get the most out of the electrics. The s10 engine has been in production for donkeys and that means there are quite a few versions, some better than others as you would expect. The problem as yet nobody has tried to mix an' match the parts from all the 9 versions there are (graphic of all the builds) to make one great engine/electrics package and i can see why as this has been a bit of a headache but thanks to various forums and a bit of trial an error it looks like the spec we end up with is:

Yamaha 3VD 850 engine, this is taken from the 850TDM ('91-'96 builds).. 100cc more than the stock xtz engine but uses the same crank and crankcase as the 750.
Yamaha 3LD 750 clutch cover and generator cover ('89-'94 builds)
Yamaha 4TX 850 clutch assembly ('96-'02 builds) c/w kevlar clutch pack
Yamaha 3LD H/d generator, these units put out 33% over stock (approx 34amp)
Yamaha 3LD H/d rectifier

Now this all may sound a bit long winded but with this set up any 850 build can be swapped back to 750 (or in an emergency run 750 parts!)... so there you go!.. lol nope, Yamaha also made a 27' degree version of the 850 called the 4TX which is a better, smoother and to some extent stronger engine ( it comes from the development of the Dakar bike),, however these are hard to find and at £500 up for a scrap one this is another project in its own right (especially as they can be taken up to 900cc ).. watch this space!

ok, head hurts?.... how about some nice pictures?

few snaps of the HID being wired up.

for those not into sexy hid then a brief explanation.. the pic above shows the main components which are (left to right) : Ballast pack, HID bulb, HID controller and HID switch connector, the bulb and ballast is repeated on the other light too... as you can see the bulbs are a bit bigger, this is because they contain a gizmo that realigns the beam of the bulb. This system is a dual action system in that it provides light in both Hi and Low beam much like a standard bulb, but unlike that standard bulb it has only one filament (light source) that is electrically 'moved' to act as two... this is predominantly due to the fact that HID bulbs have a relatively long warm up period (upto 15 secs on some bulbs!) so imagine you were on dip and wanted to flash main beam.. yep dip goes out... 15 seconds main comes on... 15 seconds later dip comes back on.....crunch!!!!

The clever bit of the system is the 3rd part, the controller, this basically is a fancy switch that controls both the bulb power and the bulbs 'shield' (the bit that moves the beam) its all solid state electronics so nasty wound coil relays that corrode or fall apart when vibrated. Lastly on the right is the three control wires, these just link up to the existing headlight wires and feed the controller the info selected by the handle bar switch....

So why go to all this hassel, well the stock XTZ bulbs are just 35/35watt, and i doubt the loom would take anything heavier without going into melt down, this way the HID increases the light output massivly but does so without harming the rest of the bike.... eg: an 18 Watt HID light source produces approximately the same lumens at the light source as a 55 Watt halogen bulb at a three to five times the halogen's efficiency. The HID lamp's lumens per watt (LPW) efficency is roughly six to eight times that of a normal lamp. Another advantage of HID is a whiter light i have used 4300k bulbs which give a cool white or fluorescent type light, manufacturres info also states (but not tested by us!)... "an HID lamp will last, on the average, 3 to 5 times as long as a halogen bulb. In normal use, your HID bulb should last beyond one thousand ignitions..." ok so that means its warn out by next week if i dont stop playing with them!

 

this is predominantly due to the fact that HID bulbs have a relatively long warm up period (upto 15 secs on some bulbs!) so imagine you were on dip and wanted to flash main beam.. yep dip goes out... 15 seconds main comes on... 15 seconds later dip comes back on.....crunch!!!!

Hmm, that would suck.

Mine doesn't do this, the HID comes on immediately, but it does take about 15 seconds to get to full strength, it's often a bit green before that. ;-)

I'm thinking about getting a set of these movable filament thingums, as the H4-2 hid+halo combo I have in the GS is utterly horrid. The HID is fine, the halogen is piss-poor.

Do you get 2 controllers in a set, or just the one? (I want to split a car-upgrade set between my bikes (if I can get the wiring rot on the NX sorted, that is :-( ))

 

bloody hell Jenna............you know your onions, I've got a headache just thinking about it :confused2:

 

Weird as I can;t get her to eat anything with onion in it!!!!!

Kymmy

 

been mega busy this week at silverstone so not much done on the bike...

managed to get the front mudguards roughly how i want them, these are a hybrid between the modified (sides removed at the back) XTZ one and the WR450 USD fork guards. I have left the back of the guard long where it goes over the tyre for now but it will get chopped down later as it doesn't need to be that long. The guard sits 2" higher on the forks than stock so it should allow the tyres to clean out if they they get clogged with mud much easier...

Also managed to spend an hour or two getting a bit more of the dash sorted out, pic below shows the bare bones of the IMO and the IMOplus which replace all the dash, the fuse box(what there is of it!) and houses the VHF tracker.

you'll note.. no ignition key anymore, main fused( circuit breaker) HD steering relay to control all the bikes electrics, 3 sub fuses ( these are actually circuit breakers not fuses aswell so self reset!), the main ignition/kill switch, also hard to see is the function LED's that show the status of the the tracker. Located on the top of the box is (from L>R) the emergency beacon activator pull, control switch to select 'main' or 'aux' fuel pump and then the the control switch for the 'air horns' and 'electric horn', lastly tucked away on the side is two small sockets that allow you to either take a 12v feed from the bike or put a 12v feed into the bike (battery optimizer, aux electronics etc etc)....

 

I'm totally in awe Jenna :angel7:
Looking forward to seeing the mudguards from a distance to see how they look with the rest of the bike
And the hours still not mssive, or so it seems? I guess it must be because you're clear on what you want anf how to get to it?

 

OK, so what’s new, well not a lot its one of those times when everything seems to be away having work done on it so no big change on the bike physically. Behind the scenes though we have moved on the figures have been worked out for the chain and sprockets ( gearing the bike to be within its power band in 4th at 52-91mph and 5th at 59-103mph) , the back end is as you read this on its way back from the electroplaters, we have tracked down the bearings to rebuild the back end of the bike from wholesaler's so that’s saved ££££ and I have managed to get the 850 engine stripped most the way.

The 850 is going to be rebuilt to race spec, the plan is to build a strong reliable engine that should last for a reasonable time without any major work, so it’s going to be ceramic bore lined, the pistons to will be ceramic crown'd and the valve steams/guides also coated in an attempt to combat wear and oil loss. The head is in good condition so that’s going to get a full stage 1 gas flowing when the valve guides are out, this along with the option to build a twin pipe/can exhaust should really help the bike breath.

Hopefully I should see the Michelin desert rear tyre in the next week or so, but I still have to find an HD rear tube in 17” sadly Michelin don’t make one so it’s going to have to be a suppler on this, that then only leaves a rim lock to find.

Going to get the frame finished this week as the decisions on extra brackets, extra bracing and a few other bits and pieces has been sorted.

 

...snip The head is in good condition so that’s going to get a full stage 1 gas flowing when the valve guides are out, ...snip

Your coverage of your project is excellent as ever Jenna!

Gas flowing has often dawdled through my head... I get it that modern engine design makes it an expensive job for less return than was the case in old days, but some of these engines - I'm thinking more of the AT here - have pretty poor head design and are inefficient burners (or so it seems). Any thoughts on the benefits of getting a gas flow for an AT?

 

Jenna - keep it coming - this is just fantastic stuff - especially with the pics.

Have you decided on an overall colour scheme yet?

How & where do you get the ceramic coating done on the engine innards?

Nice to see you back again :colors: :colors: :colors: :colors:

 

a well gas flowed head with a good intake system and exhaust can give you around 8 to 10% more torque. However it's very easy to bu#'er up the casting buy chopping out to much and hitting the water jacket. to give you some idea of how bad a casting can restrict the engine look at these pics of a zetec head i did, inlet and exhaust. the blue pen marks the amount of ally to be removed (note thats rough removed and not the final match!)...

 

Hmmm, thanks Kymmy, Greg and Jenna
Wow, those castings are way out?!? With those pictures Jenna, it's easy to see why some ATs might seem to be quicker than others - I guess they are!

 

Hey Jenna - hows the XTZ project coming along - I missed my weekly fix on it.............

 

 

Jenna - like others i am following this with great interest. Looks great so far - wish id had some of your knowledge when i was doing mine.

Your rear end looks awsome - How much extra rear travel do you think youve got now compared to standard ??

 

by reworking the damper its gained just under 4" ( from 215mm to 325mm )but thats pushing everything to the max and with the damper on its stop (which isnt a good idea!).. i would guess i have gained 3" of working movement which i have used to get 3" more ground clearence. the Kabaya usd forks are also +4" and they are set at the mo to +3" so all in all the bike sits level (all be it at just under 40" seat height without the engine in :laughing6: ).

 

Nice one Jenna, like the others I am following with interest as well

 

i canna wait to see this beastie in the flesh top quality work going on there

 

its slowly starting to resemble a bike again (thank god, racer has been in bits for nearly 10 years!!)....

spent the afternoon finishing of the spare engine (its only going in the bike while the 850 is done), one ikkle bit of pipework to finish but needs the lathe working to do so it will have to wait for a week or so.

not had much done to it internally other than a check over/service, i polished out the head but it wasnt worth porting just yet, all the valve clearances have been done, bore has been honed and new gasket set all round. its got the 850 electrics (generator/pickup) and the 850 clutch.. All the electrics have been redone with fresh wire, waterproof connectors and heat shrink.
I also fitted the twin pumps (facet posiflow), the way they work is one pump is the main and is fed from the main tank upto the reserve level and the other is fed from both rear tanks and the reserve on the main tank. I also fitted the dry brake so the fuel system or carbs can be quickly removed.

oopps forgot to mention slippy stuff inside is Elf Sport 4, is a 10-60 synth and is the dogs danglies! (advert over)

Renthal (through B&C Express) are sorting out the chain and sprockets, I have opted to up grade the whole system and fit HD530 chain and sprockets instead of the stock 520, hopefully it should pay back in extended life. The yammy engine is nice in that its been in production for ever in various guises and after a bit of hunting around we have managed to find the specs for not only the sprockets in the bigger pitch but also in a greater tooth range. Water and oil pipes have all been swapped from rubber to silicon rubber ready for the new rad/cooler assembly and all the nuts and bolts swapped to ally if they are not under load or A2 Stainless steel if they are, looks nice but also as they are cap head they are much easier to work with and less likely to round off.

I'm also looking at changing the whole ignition system, as it seams daft to fit HD generator (33amp) and regulator/rectifier and not do the remaining coil and cdi units, I have found a company that can supply an HD twin coil and another company that supply a programmable cdi, bad news is that so far nobody has ever fitted the system to this engine in any of its forms so that means loads of dyno time to get it right... however i like the idea of selectable ignition maps on the move

 

promised myself that i wouldn't do my usual thing of keep putting it together and then taking it apart to mod something else but thanks to wheeliebin i just had to have a look....umm think it may be wise to drop the suspension down a bit or i may need to wear high heels to ride it!!

just slapped on the main panels quickly to get some idea of the height and size, at the minute the seat is just under 40" off the ground!

 

promised myself that i wouldn't do my usual thing of keep putting it together and then taking it apart to mod something else but thanks to wheeliebin i just had to have a look....umm think it may be wise to drop the suspension down a bit or i may need to wear high heels to ride it!!

just slapped on the main panels quickly to get some idea of the height and size, at the minute the seat is just under 40" off the ground!

hey that looks spot on for my 37in legs

 

Hi Jenna,

could you please tell me what minor changes you made with the wr450 yokes to make them fit; did you use the original bearings or ..............

I want to make same swap but are struggeling with the the right sollution.

Please help , regards, Arjen.

 

the whole bike build is posted in more detail on the the UK XTZ owners site ( the full discussions and problems too)
UK Super Tenere Owners Club

You should find the stock wr400/450 ally yokes have the same headstock bearing diameter so that means you can reuse the headstock bolt from the XTZ in the wr top and bottom yokes, bearings are stock XTZ ones (47x25x15mm, cant remember the others size off hand).... oh and remember the stock XTZ wheel and caliper dose NOT fit the wr forks you need to either modify them to take the twin disc XTZ wheel ( which needs different wheel bearings as the wr through bolt is bigger at 20mm and not 15mm like the xtz)or go with the single wr disc and caliper...if you still have problems PM me and i will go through each bit step by step if its any help.