I have stored bikes over winter every year for as long as I can remember. Most years there's been one modern and one "classic" in the shed - the latter usually undergoing some sort of rebuild. I have never done anything special with the petrol (and all except a Velo Venom have been run on 95 octane hence 5% ethanol in recent years) and have never had any problems at all. If I've been doing work on the petrol tank I'll normally drain it off into a plastic container (if more than a gallon put the surplus in my wife's car) then put it back in the bike when Spring comes - normally first kick starting unless there's something else wrong.

I accept that modern fuels do cause issues with fibreglass tanks of ones treated with some sealers, and obviously rubber parts like fuel lines need changing, but I have never experienced the horrendous things some people report. In any case I suspect these (if they exist) may be down to some of the other ingredients in modern fuel - such as benzene - rather than the ethanol.

Ethanol was a widely promoted ingredient of fuels such as Cleveland Discol back in the 50s and I'm not aware of any problems caused by it then.

 

The general consensus in my circle of goons is that when it comes to laying up time, always brim fill the bike with a branded premium unleaded and steer well clear of the supermarket fuels until you get round to regular fill ups again in which case fill her up with a tank full of tesco cheapest !
I generally turn the fuel tap off on the older stuff and run it dry but this is only to stop fuel seepage into the cylinders. On my fuel injected modern stuff I just park em up and jack them off the concrete to protect the tyres. If I'm in the shed I'll start everything but in some circles they say this can accelerate moisture into the exhaust system.
Some say leave on a battery trickle charger and some say let the battery cycle with bi weekly charging if it has an alarm.
I suspect many of these things are made up of truths and urban myths. I find that what works for me works for me but others will find a reason to not do it
I do however spend alot of time cleaning out older carbs which have become tarnished with standing fuel from friends bikes which makes you believe it wants draining but if you drain a carb then you get alsorts of issues with the float rubbers going hard (not always, I know)
I suspect that as with most things it's just trial, error and personal choice. :thumbright:

 

You can clean fuel of alcohol by adding a litre or so to 10 litres of fuel in a drum and shaking the fook out of it, the water and alcohol mix and settle at the bottom of the drum.
The kits you can buy have a tap in the bottom that allows the shite to be drained off and the good fuel to be used.
Hard work unless you have a paint shaker, but maybe worth it for storage.
The other way which is easier but more expensive is to go to the local chainsaw shop and buy a drum of Aspen or Alkylate fuel.
It come in premixed 2% for two strokes or straight fuel for 4 strokes.
This has no alcohol in it and is very long lasting compared to standard fuel, 5 years in a sealed drum.
Fill the tank with it, I don't think there is any difference to a 4 stroke between premix or straight, if that is all you can buy.
It won't corrode the brass fittings in the carb and fuel tap like ethanol fuel either.

 

Is fuel duty paid on that? If not you could be in for a hefty fine and your bike crushed......

 

Does HMRC test petrol for any marker?
A far as I know there is no test for petrol only marked fuel oil, they don't test petrol over here anyway.
Its a lot more expensive than buying pump fuel so I can't see that it would be a viable way of running a vehicle hence the no-test.
Usually avoiding fuel duties has to do with cheaper fuel being available not more expensive cleaner fuels.

 

I don't actually know but the penalties for using red diesel are pretty severe.

Having said that there seem to be a lot of people running round on old chip fat so maybe it's not as bad as I imagine.

I'm still not convinced ethanol is the villain it's made out to be. Remember the hysteria about unleaded, and I was a victim of that, having the valve seats in my Norton Commando replaced at great cost. Some years later I experimented with the Triumph Stag I ran for 5 years as a daily driver covering around 50,000 miles on unleaded without changing the valve seats. Regular checks of valve clearances showed no measurable recession at all over that period. Plenty of other (non-fuel related) problems of course.....

 

The attached is a study done for the DoT by Qinetiq but most of the referenced studies are in fact anecdotal and I personally would not have included them in a supposedly authoritative study. However, without them it would have been very thin.......

 

Ethanol in fuel is a concern for me, I have seen far too many carbs that have been damaged by either ethanol or water during storage, either with a white powder or a green jelly in the float bowl.
"They have received reports from the US and Australia of corrosion in Amal carburettors where bronze is in contact with

zinc. The corrosion occurs when the vehicle is placed into storage with an
undrained fuel system. After only a few weeks corrosion occurs producing a fine
white powder that blocks the carburettor jets. The solution is to completely drain the
fuel system prior to the vehicle being stored. "
This was an interesting excerpt from that study.
I was looking at a B+S engine the other day that my mate was servicing, the primer bulb was swollen and distorted from the ethanol in the fuel, fuel lines are another problem, they harden and crack when exposed to ethanol as well.
Its just all round bad when left in anything for any length of time.
Maybe modern car fuel systems are designed to handle it but I don't think many older bikes handle it very well at all.

 

"They have received reports from the US and Australia of corrosion in Amal carburettors where bronze is in contact with

zinc. The corrosion occurs when the vehicle is placed into storage with an
undrained fuel system. After only a few weeks corrosion occurs producing a fine
white powder that blocks the carburettor jets. The solution is to completely drain the
fuel system prior to the vehicle being stored. "
This was an interesting excerpt from that study.

But it is one of the anecdotal sources which I'm afraid I need much more information to be convinced about.

 

Thanks for all the input. I looked at Aspen but it's just too expensive. The bike sits for maybe a couple of months at a time, it's not mothballed.
In the end I went and got a Jerry can full of Murco premium, which is generally believed to the be the best chance of getting Ehtanol free petrol.
I hope it's correct, it smells different so I'm taking that as a good sign.
I've brimmed the tank and will always keep it brimmed when the bike is parked up.

 

I have used Millers in my 1980's Alfa Spider which is a summer only vehicle: see Classic Fuel Additives | Millers Oils
They say

EPS - A fuel treatment providing ethanol protection only. Note: - Does not contain a lead replacement or octane improver. Recommended for rebuilt classic engines / vehicles with hardened valve seats previously requiring leaded fuel and now running on unleaded fuel and where an octane improver and lead replacement are not required.

 

I don't need any more proof,bikes that were fine for years suddenly started having carb problems as soon as Ethanol fuel came on the market.
Green slime, white powder, blocked and corroded brass jets.
Its everywhere that Ethanol fuel is available.
I have had to replace lots of fuel lines in all kinds of machinery that has been attacked by ethanol and gone hard and cracked.
Fuel primers that swell or harden.
Never had any issues up until ethanol laced fuel came about.
New outboards have huge issues with this fuel.
I use Aspen in all my 2 stroke machinery, chainsaws, strimmers and leaf blowers and have yet to see any downside apart from price.

 

gentlemen what are your thoughts on fuel stabilisers that are supposed to stop this problem.
I have read that ethanol fuel can go off in as little as 3 weeks.
my current project a green lane machine will only be used occasionally but draining the sustem each time is a pain.

 

I've started to use Murco or Esso Premium in my bikes which can be left standing (my KE100 usually only comes out to play in the snow). These fuels are supposed to be ethanol free. The next step up would be to get an "Ethanil" kit (or make your own) and phase separate the Ethanol out of the fuel.
Aspen is the other way but it's damn expensive.
I'm a bit skeptical about additives, the Ethanol is in there and an additive isn't going to get rid of it.

 

I use Alkylate petrol for VERY long term storage in chainsaws and the like where I need a quick start to cut fallen timber and the like.

I always have treated fuel in the petrol generator which might sit for month on end and not be started, a cheap insurance but I must admit I have not bothered going for premium fuel* for it... i might look into this. Also do the same for mowers and similar kit, again a few pence worth of treatment in the final tankful of the season... Why not?

I had a Kwack KMX125 many years ago that I did not drain and suffered the curse of "sugar" in the carb from petrol evaporating and leaving residues. A pig to clean afterwards.






* No idea where the nearest Murco or Esso stop is mind... i doubt that Shell sell anything that can be called quality IME!

 

I had a Kwack KMX125 many years ago that I did not drain and suffered the curse of "sugar" in the carb from petrol evaporating and leaving residues. A pig to clean afterwards.

"Many years ago" - then presumably pre-ethanol?

 

steveR
what product are you using/recommend in your generator etc for fuel treatment?

I am convinced I need to treat my bike as I will only use it occasionally and I also have generator that always has fuel in it as we get many power cuts in winter,but may sit for a long time unused then be required several times in a couple of days

 

TBH, I am unsure, I got it off a mower shop 4-5 years ago!

Pretty sure there used to be some sold on fleabay though. But try a specialist mower place or similar, I doubt the big Sheds will have anything of use...



Later....this is what I have, also has ethanol problem additives.

"For best results always store vehicles and equipment with a full tank of fuel rather than a near empty tank. Always run the engine for up to 5-10 minutes after adding STA-BIL to ensure the entire fuel system is treated and not just the fuel stored in the fuel tank." I was told this when I got the stuff, and always do this as a matter of course.

Sta-Bil Fuel Stabiliser (236ml) | Frost Auto Restoration Techniques